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Stirlingsays 28 Jan 21 11.04am | |
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Originally posted by DanH
There's so much misinformation about the EU and exactly what EU laws and regulations are and how they operate. We also could have operated a more stringent immigration and benefit regime under EU rules, we just chose not to. But we couldn't have chosen our own rules and that was the reality of accepting EU membership. We had to abide by their rules, rather than our own. The policy of freedom of movement being one of the main drivers behind Brexit. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jan 2021 11.06am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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DanH SW2 28 Jan 21 11.17am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
But we couldn't have chosen our own rules and that was the reality of accepting EU membership. We had to abide by their rules, rather than our own. The policy of freedom of movement being one of the main drivers behind Brexit. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jan 2021 11.06am) I know, I get why people voted for it. The EU rules on it though could have been implemented differently though so they were stricter and we chose not to. I genuinely don't think most people actually knew that.
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Stirlingsays 28 Jan 21 11.38am | |
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Originally posted by DanH
I know, I get why people voted for it. The EU rules on it though could have been implemented differently though so they were stricter and we chose not to. I genuinely don't think most people actually knew that. I think it's fair to say that most Brexiters aren't against the concept of the EU as so much as its attitude towards flexibility on individual policies. In the EU itself there is a constant tug of war between federalists and those who believe in the EU but think it should be less federal. However, the federalists currently rule that roost. I think that the missed opportunity for the anti Brexit movement was Merkel not listening to Cameron back before the referendum. She gambled that the UK would reject Brexit and decided to put all her eggs in one basket by denying real flexibility on the freedom of movement issue. He warned her on that risk but she decided against. Once it became clear that 'freedom of movement' was non negotiable the die was cast....even so it was a reasonably close run thing. So essentially we are out of the EU because the federalists have too much power in the EU. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jan 2021 11.40am)
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Stirlingsays 28 Jan 21 11.54am | |
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'The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy' (attributed to Wilde) The EU shares the same problem all organizations share....they want more power. We see it all the time, they start off with a remit and soon enough we hear that to achieve it we need X and Y and that results in never ending expansion until someone pulls the plug. I've always considered strong decentralisation within a strongly limited collective body as sensible. Indeed, many people would agree with that but the devil is always in the detail and what that actually looks like in reality. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jan 2021 11.55am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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steeleye20 Croydon 28 Jan 21 12.16pm | |
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Originally posted by DanH
I know, I get why people voted for it. The EU rules on it though could have been implemented differently though so they were stricter and we chose not to. I genuinely don't think most people actually knew that. Correct, the UK could have had its own quotas as a few other member states do. I don't know why PM May did not take it up as it is right up her hawkish street. Too occupied with Windrush I expect.
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Badger11 Beckenham 28 Jan 21 12.54pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
We couldn't change our government 'under' the EU? What nonsense, the poster is clearly from the 'Happy fish' movement. We were members of the EU, not 'under' anybody. Sorry I beg to differ. The only flexibility that the UK government did not implement on immigration was that after 3 months if a EU citizen had not found a job they could be deported. Oh and Blair chose not to to use quotas at the start. I think others on here can can probably explain better the problems and costs of deporting anyone so I guess the government decided it wasn't worth the effort. It is better to stop people coming in the first place than to remove them afterwards. The only flexibility we had was within the EU rules now we can make up our own rules. Edited by Badger11 (28 Jan 2021 12.55pm)
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cryrst The garden of England 28 Jan 21 1.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Henry of Peckham
Do you really believe all immigrant workers come here for our schools and NHS? All the Europeans I know work hard for their living and pay their taxes but I have seen plenty of home grown layabouts abusing our institutions. Covid undoubtedly has had a bearing on the rate of progress on building a life after Brexit. Much has yet to be done but I am far from impressed so far. After 4 weeks,!
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steeleye20 Croydon 28 Jan 21 1.34pm | |
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There is no post-EU world. But there is a post-UK one. That is why Johnson and his side-kick Starmer are now falling over themselves to ingratiate the Scots, this time it's real. They must, to preserve the power of the Westminster elite, the 'establishment' (themselves). Anyone could see that the Scots and NI would be far better off free, look at covid and brexit, actually so would we with regional assemblies. As for 'levelling-up' the committee set up for this had 28 out of 30 members based south of Watford.
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davenotamonkey 28 Jan 21 2.06pm | |
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The EU have raided (sorry, "agressively audited, unannounced" the AstraZeneca factory in Belgium. Best advert ever for pharma firms looking to relocate to the UK and Switzerland: "Come to us, we won't raid you, threaten to cut off exports of your product to your customer, or smear you in public when we f*** up our procurement" What a bunch of mafioso criminals.
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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 28 Jan 21 2.14pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Correct, the UK could have had its own quotas as a few other member states do. I don't know why PM May did not take it up as it is right up her hawkish street. Too occupied with Windrush I expect.
Exactly what quotas are these you refer to? Please be specific in your answer. Genuinely want to know.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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Badger11 Beckenham 28 Jan 21 2.31pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
There is no post-EU world. But there is a post-UK one. That is why Johnson and his side-kick Starmer are now falling over themselves to ingratiate the Scots, this time it's real. They must, to preserve the power of the Westminster elite, the 'establishment' (themselves). Anyone could see that the Scots and NI would be far better off free, look at covid and brexit, actually so would we with regional assemblies. As for 'levelling-up' the committee set up for this had 28 out of 30 members based south of Watford. There is another thread on Scottish independence so i will keep it brief. The economic argument for an independent Scotland doesn't add up but if they want their freedom so be it. As for NI the demographics say that there will be a united Ireland one day however the ROI may find itself facing a huge bill when this happens.
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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 28 Jan 21 2.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
And if we need more NHS staff from Europe, great, give people we require work permits and bring them over. We don’t however require more delivery drivers or Costa Coffee workers. The more of the missing 100 000 nhs staff we can employ, the more work will get done, the more medicine and ppe needed, the more delivery drivers needed, the more costa coff drunk by said staff- simples!
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