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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 29 Jul 19 7.18pm | |
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Originally posted by est1905
You talk complete rubbish. If we had a Championship squad we'd be in the Championship wouldn't we. Pulis was/is a chancer. Allardyce probably has more professionalism and commitment to a job but both are out for No.1 with little regard for their employers or the business model's future success.
Shows how little you really know about the game and the people in it. So you think because you have a Championship squad you must automatically be in championship yeah ok thats how it works is it no otherwise why are teams with Premier league squads relegated idiot. Look up Pullis Premier League record as a manager he has never been a big spender and always had solid record so the whole "chancer" not sure how you came up with that same with making out both destroy clubs far from it. Big Sam left and was out of work for almost 6 months before Everton signed him, the guy could of easily jumped back into another job straight after leaving Palace but he didn't want to. Both really walked because of SP and no funds that is the truth and can't blame them for that. Everybody cares about no1 you are in a fantasy land if you think otherwise it's a job.
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TheBigToePunt 29 Jul 19 8.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Painter
The Academy is an interesting subject, as however much you invest, there is no guarantee of success. All the big clubs are scouting all over the world for kids as young as 8-9 years old, then offering them the big dream, in reality many fall by the wayside and never make it. Agreed, and Bostock is such a good example of how easily you can lose excellent young players even when you can find and develop them. It's such a minefield that Brentford decided to bin their whole youth system and just have a development side (like the reserves except only playing friendlies because they can't be affiliated to any league) instead. They then focused on youth players who just fell short at the end at the biggest clubs, plus the better free agents and trialists etc. Seems to work for them, and though palace can't follow suit as the premier league has rules about having an academy, it does go to support your point that it's not as simple as saying: the greater the investment in the academy the better the chance of it providing what the first team needs. It's perfectly possible to over invest in an academy, just as it is in any potential source of players. For me the club should continue to do what they can when they can, looking for players to improve the team on the 'known quantity' domestic market, the loan market, and the youth system, though probably less so the longshot foreign markets where the risk is higher even if the rewards can occasionally be significant. The key is to have a pragmatic approach rather than some kind of strategy or 'philosophy'. Edited by TheBigToePunt (29 Jul 2019 8.16pm)
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 29 Jul 19 10.16pm | |
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
Thanks all for continuing this interesting discussion. I'm not advocating a strict policy of only signing senior players, although we could debate whether that might actually be a good idea. I was simply arguing against the idea of a preference for younger ones where that preference comes from resale value rather than whether they are part of the very strongest 11 we can arrange right now. The really notable thing is that a few of you feel we should have a 'transfer strategy'. I question that such a thing can actually exist. We aren't Man City. We will always need to be flexible and responsive in the short term to what the team needs right now, because that only has to go wrong a tiny bit and the whole thing crumbles. Our experience in this league has shown that the greatest need is often unexpected until the time, and can't really be planned for two or three years in advance. Apart from the mad trolley dash straight after promotion the club has actually done a good job of targeted signings to strengthen the team where it was weakest at the time. That is the only 'strategy' worth worrying about as far as I can see. Always has been and always will be. If the solution to today's problem happens to be a kid in our youth team then that's great, and the club have put a massive effort in to the academy to increase the chances of that happening, but the idea that instead of starting out by saying 'We need a new left back, who is the best one we can get for the budget' we would sit there and say 'Never mind what the team needs, the squad doesn't have enough resale value so let's go and get the best player we can who is under 20' is dangerously overthinking it. This resale value idea has taken grip to such an extent that as I said in an earlier post, any player under 20 has an artificially high value now anyway. The whole of Western Europe is scouring every part of Africa, Eastern Europe and wherever else looking for players now. There is no untapped market. We aren't failing to think hard enough about it, it's just not the great idea it might once have been, and that's without the fact that you'll always end up with far more misses than hits. As has been correctly pointed out, we start every year knowing we are one of 12 to 14 sides who might end up in the bottom three, and the margins are too tight to take a single liberty. The idea that we might sign anyone other than the best available option to give the team what it needs right now is almost negligence. If we hadn't signed Dann, Puncheon, Cabeye, McArthur, Tompkins, PVA, Sakho and even Benteke then we'd have gone down. It is not that we should be going out looking for especially a right back, left back, def mid or any particular position at any particular time or using this strategy instead of signing the established players and those you’ve mentioned. It should be alongside these, or instead of one of the backup players we sign up just because. These youngsters or promising players you often can’t play early on and have to ease them in anyway, so therefore doing pretty much what you’ve said. Buying established players only is not a successful model for very long. It needs something else and more. We won’t e staying up in the near future using that model ONLY anyway, as is becoming abundantly clear to people close to the club and its operations. That hasn’t trickled through to all fans as there’s still some who expect a £45 mil net spend every summer even though we’ve lost £45 mil over the couple of seasons.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 29 Jul 19 10.22pm | |
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
Agreed, and Bostock is such a good example of how easily you can lose excellent young players even when you can find and develop them. It's such a minefield that Brentford decided to bin their whole youth system and just have a development side (like the reserves except only playing friendlies because they can't be affiliated to any league) instead. They then focused on youth players who just fell short at the end at the biggest clubs, plus the better free agents and trialists etc. Seems to work for them, and though palace can't follow suit as the premier league has rules about having an academy, it does go to support your point that it's not as simple as saying: the greater the investment in the academy the better the chance of it providing what the first team needs. It's perfectly possible to over invest in an academy, just as it is in any potential source of players. For me the club should continue to do what they can when they can, looking for players to improve the team on the 'known quantity' domestic market, the loan market, and the youth system, though probably less so the longshot foreign markets where the risk is higher even if the rewards can occasionally be significant. The key is to have a pragmatic approach rather than some kind of strategy or 'philosophy'. Edited by TheBigToePunt (29 Jul 2019 8.16pm) And how do the signings of Benteke and Sakho fit in with this pragmatic approach you speak of and be beneficial to having a transfer policy of, maybe looking quite far afield for the positions we knew were an issue for 18-24 months before we signed players for well over our maximum that have ended up hamstringing us. Sorry but I’ll have policies in the club and planning rather than reactionary do what it can signings, or what’s in front of the club to be more accurate and out of The panini album any day. Look at us now.
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est1905 30 Jul 19 10.22am | |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
Shows how little you really know about the game and the people in it. So you think because you have a Championship squad you must automatically be in championship yeah ok thats how it works is it no otherwise why are teams with Premier league squads relegated idiot. Look up Pullis Premier League record as a manager he has never been a big spender and always had solid record so the whole "chancer" not sure how you came up with that same with making out both destroy clubs far from it. Big Sam left and was out of work for almost 6 months before Everton signed him, the guy could of easily jumped back into another job straight after leaving Palace but he didn't want to. Both really walked because of SP and no funds that is the truth and can't blame them for that. Everybody cares about no1 you are in a fantasy land if you think otherwise it's a job. The reason Alardyce didn't take a job for 6 months is because he knew he'd look really bad after just saying he has retired and had enough. Secondly it took Everton 6 months to come forward. If they'd offered him the job a month after leaving Palace he'd have taken it. Its YOU thats an idiot if you cannot see that. Pulis record as a manager is a water treader. He didn't spend a fortune because it was never given to him to spend, doesn't stop him having his eye to the main chance though. he proved that by trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve (because he had every intention of leaving and the bonus was contactually linked to future commitment to the club). Both DID walk because of lack of funds to spend that summer yes, you are repeating what I have already said there. Wake up. And finally, for the 'dumbarse of the day award' we are hardly a Championship squad when we have already survived and established ourselves in the Premiership over more than one season. We haven't been relegated (yet) and until we are we are a Premiership squad. May not be a squad with the depth and quality of Man City but the clue is the division we are in and our final league position. Before you start attributing that all to your heros Pulis and Alardyce I'd point out that is their job and that Roy has achieved far bigger escapes with no point, no goals in the first 7 games.
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Jul 19 11.08am | |
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Originally posted by est1905
The reason Alardyce didn't take a job for 6 months is because he knew he'd look really bad after just saying he has retired and had enough. Secondly it took Everton 6 months to come forward. If they'd offered him the job a month after leaving Palace he'd have taken it. Its YOU thats an idiot if you cannot see that. Pulis record as a manager is a water treader. He didn't spend a fortune because it was never given to him to spend, doesn't stop him having his eye to the main chance though. he proved that by trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve (because he had every intention of leaving and the bonus was contactually linked to future commitment to the club). Both DID walk because of lack of funds to spend that summer yes, you are repeating what I have already said there. Wake up. And finally, for the 'dumbarse of the day award' we are hardly a Championship squad when we have already survived and established ourselves in the Premiership over more than one season. We haven't been relegated (yet) and until we are we are a Premiership squad. May not be a squad with the depth and quality of Man City but the clue is the division we are in and our final league position. Before you start attributing that all to your heros Pulis and Alardyce I'd point out that is their job and that Roy has achieved far bigger escapes with no point, no goals in the first 7 games. I have no desire to engage in a discussion regarding the reasons for the departures of Pulis and Allardyce. All I would add is that it would be perhaps a tad churlish not to give them some credit for saving us from the dreaded drop. When Allardyce arrived we were 17th after 17 games with just 15 pts on the board and we finished in 14th place.It certainly wasn't looking good for us after that horrific 0-4 defeat to Sunderland ! Hodgson of course performed miracles in keeping us up last season after that dastardly start so credit to him as well.
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bexleydave Barnehurst 30 Jul 19 11.16am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
I have no desire to engage in a discussion regarding the reasons for the departures of Pulis and Allardyce. All I would add is that it would be perhaps a tad churlish not to give them some credit for saving us from the dreaded drop. When Allardyce arrived we were 17th after 17 games with just 15 pts on the board and we finished in 14th place.It certainly wasn't looking good for us after that horrific 0-4 defeat to Sunderland ! Hodgson of course performed miracles in keeping us up last season after that dastardly start so credit to him as well.
Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum) |
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Midlands Eagle 30 Jul 19 11.22am | |
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Originally posted by est1905
Pulis record as a manager is a water treader. He didn't spend a fortune because it was never given to him to spend, doesn't stop him having his eye to the main chance though. he proved that by trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve (because he had every intention of leaving and the bonus was contactually linked to future commitment to the club). I wonder how many times we've all gone over this in the past. You posted that "trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve" which isn't true as he did deserve it as he saved us from the relegation that everyone of us thought was going to happen. If you had posted that he tried to take a bonus that he wasn't contractually entitled to" it would have been more truthful.
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bexleydave Barnehurst 30 Jul 19 12.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I wonder how many times we've all gone over this in the past. You posted that "trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve" which isn't true as he did deserve it as he saved us from the relegation that everyone of us thought was going to happen. If you had posted that he tried to take a bonus that he wasn't contractually entitled to" it would have been more truthful.
Cue the "a court found in our favour" and "Parish showed no one pushes Palace around" comments.
Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum) |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Jul 19 12.13pm | |
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Yes Dave.
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Painter Croydon 30 Jul 19 1.17pm | |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
Cue the "a court found in our favour" and "Parish showed no one pushes Palace around" comments. It would be more truthful, if you stated the administrator for CPFC2000 paid the local traders a pittance not Parish.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Jul 19 1.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Painter
It would be more truthful, if you stated the administrator for CPFC2000 paid the local traders a pittance not Parish. Who paid St John’s Ambulance? Not Parish or CPFC 2010. It was the BBS members.
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