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The moaning about Parish/Hodgson/Freedman thread

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards grumpymort Flag US/Thailand/UK 29 Jul 19 7.18pm Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

Originally posted by est1905

You talk complete rubbish. If we had a Championship squad we'd be in the Championship wouldn't we. Pulis was/is a chancer. Allardyce probably has more professionalism and commitment to a job but both are out for No.1 with little regard for their employers or the business model's future success.
Wants to retire then rocks up at Everton? Do me a favour!
Wants his bonus early to help his son then walks out? Do me a favour!
Both cared only about themselves. In this day and age its not unusual but be honest about it ffs


You really are a dumb one.

Shows how little you really know about the game and the people in it.

So you think because you have a Championship squad you must automatically be in championship yeah ok thats how it works is it no otherwise why are teams with Premier league squads relegated idiot.

Look up Pullis Premier League record as a manager he has never been a big spender and always had solid record so the whole "chancer" not sure how you came up with that same with making out both destroy clubs far from it.

Big Sam left and was out of work for almost 6 months before Everton signed him, the guy could of easily jumped back into another job straight after leaving Palace but he didn't want to.

Both really walked because of SP and no funds that is the truth and can't blame them for that.

Everybody cares about no1 you are in a fantasy land if you think otherwise it's a job.

 


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TheBigToePunt Flag 29 Jul 19 8.13pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

The Academy is an interesting subject, as however much you invest, there is no guarantee of success. All the big clubs are scouting all over the world for kids as young as 8-9 years old, then offering them the big dream, in reality many fall by the wayside and never make it.
I have been reading a book " The Next Big Thing" by Ryan Baldi, its about youngsters that were marked as having a big future, but for many reasons just fell away, it has a Chapter on Bostock. Many get injured playing too much when young, some were marked out by old pros and deliberately maimed, never to recover. They lost interest and found drink and gambling, the new manager didn't rate them etc.
So, you can see why clubs look to buy the finished product. We have been fortunate to produce a few in recent years, but many have not made the grade. Kirby was going to be the next to break through, but hasn't featured in any pre season friendlies, will we ever see him again, has he burnt out already?

Agreed, and Bostock is such a good example of how easily you can lose excellent young players even when you can find and develop them. It's such a minefield that Brentford decided to bin their whole youth system and just have a development side (like the reserves except only playing friendlies because they can't be affiliated to any league) instead. They then focused on youth players who just fell short at the end at the biggest clubs, plus the better free agents and trialists etc. Seems to work for them, and though palace can't follow suit as the premier league has rules about having an academy, it does go to support your point that it's not as simple as saying: the greater the investment in the academy the better the chance of it providing what the first team needs. It's perfectly possible to over invest in an academy, just as it is in any potential source of players.

For me the club should continue to do what they can when they can, looking for players to improve the team on the 'known quantity' domestic market, the loan market, and the youth system, though probably less so the longshot foreign markets where the risk is higher even if the rewards can occasionally be significant. The key is to have a pragmatic approach rather than some kind of strategy or 'philosophy'.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (29 Jul 2019 8.16pm)

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 29 Jul 19 10.16pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Thanks all for continuing this interesting discussion.

I'm not advocating a strict policy of only signing senior players, although we could debate whether that might actually be a good idea. I was simply arguing against the idea of a preference for younger ones where that preference comes from resale value rather than whether they are part of the very strongest 11 we can arrange right now.

The really notable thing is that a few of you feel we should have a 'transfer strategy'. I question that such a thing can actually exist. We aren't Man City. We will always need to be flexible and responsive in the short term to what the team needs right now, because that only has to go wrong a tiny bit and the whole thing crumbles. Our experience in this league has shown that the greatest need is often unexpected until the time, and can't really be planned for two or three years in advance.

Apart from the mad trolley dash straight after promotion the club has actually done a good job of targeted signings to strengthen the team where it was weakest at the time. That is the only 'strategy' worth worrying about as far as I can see. Always has been and always will be.

If the solution to today's problem happens to be a kid in our youth team then that's great, and the club have put a massive effort in to the academy to increase the chances of that happening, but the idea that instead of starting out by saying 'We need a new left back, who is the best one we can get for the budget' we would sit there and say 'Never mind what the team needs, the squad doesn't have enough resale value so let's go and get the best player we can who is under 20' is dangerously overthinking it. This resale value idea has taken grip to such an extent that as I said in an earlier post, any player under 20 has an artificially high value now anyway. The whole of Western Europe is scouring every part of Africa, Eastern Europe and wherever else looking for players now. There is no untapped market. We aren't failing to think hard enough about it, it's just not the great idea it might once have been, and that's without the fact that you'll always end up with far more misses than hits.

As has been correctly pointed out, we start every year knowing we are one of 12 to 14 sides who might end up in the bottom three, and the margins are too tight to take a single liberty. The idea that we might sign anyone other than the best available option to give the team what it needs right now is almost negligence. If we hadn't signed Dann, Puncheon, Cabeye, McArthur, Tompkins, PVA, Sakho and even Benteke then we'd have gone down.

It is not that we should be going out looking for especially a right back, left back, def mid or any particular position at any particular time or using this strategy instead of signing the established players and those you’ve mentioned.

It should be alongside these, or instead of one of the backup players we sign up just because. These youngsters or promising players you often can’t play early on and have to ease them in anyway, so therefore doing pretty much what you’ve said.

Buying established players only is not a successful model for very long. It needs something else and more. We won’t e staying up in the near future using that model ONLY anyway, as is becoming abundantly clear to people close to the club and its operations. That hasn’t trickled through to all fans as there’s still some who expect a £45 mil net spend every summer even though we’ve lost £45 mil over the couple of seasons.

 


COYP

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 29 Jul 19 10.22pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Agreed, and Bostock is such a good example of how easily you can lose excellent young players even when you can find and develop them. It's such a minefield that Brentford decided to bin their whole youth system and just have a development side (like the reserves except only playing friendlies because they can't be affiliated to any league) instead. They then focused on youth players who just fell short at the end at the biggest clubs, plus the better free agents and trialists etc. Seems to work for them, and though palace can't follow suit as the premier league has rules about having an academy, it does go to support your point that it's not as simple as saying: the greater the investment in the academy the better the chance of it providing what the first team needs. It's perfectly possible to over invest in an academy, just as it is in any potential source of players.

For me the club should continue to do what they can when they can, looking for players to improve the team on the 'known quantity' domestic market, the loan market, and the youth system, though probably less so the longshot foreign markets where the risk is higher even if the rewards can occasionally be significant. The key is to have a pragmatic approach rather than some kind of strategy or 'philosophy'.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (29 Jul 2019 8.16pm)

And how do the signings of Benteke and Sakho fit in with this pragmatic approach you speak of and be beneficial to having a transfer policy of, maybe looking quite far afield for the positions we knew were an issue for 18-24 months before we signed players for well over our maximum that have ended up hamstringing us. Sorry but I’ll have policies in the club and planning rather than reactionary do what it can signings, or what’s in front of the club to be more accurate and out of The panini album any day. Look at us now.

 


COYP

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est1905 Flag 30 Jul 19 10.22am Send a Private Message to est1905 Add est1905 as a friend

Originally posted by grumpymort


You really are a dumb one.

Shows how little you really know about the game and the people in it.

So you think because you have a Championship squad you must automatically be in championship yeah ok thats how it works is it no otherwise why are teams with Premier league squads relegated idiot.

Look up Pullis Premier League record as a manager he has never been a big spender and always had solid record so the whole "chancer" not sure how you came up with that same with making out both destroy clubs far from it.

Big Sam left and was out of work for almost 6 months before Everton signed him, the guy could of easily jumped back into another job straight after leaving Palace but he didn't want to.

Both really walked because of SP and no funds that is the truth and can't blame them for that.

Everybody cares about no1 you are in a fantasy land if you think otherwise it's a job.

The reason Alardyce didn't take a job for 6 months is because he knew he'd look really bad after just saying he has retired and had enough. Secondly it took Everton 6 months to come forward. If they'd offered him the job a month after leaving Palace he'd have taken it. Its YOU thats an idiot if you cannot see that.

Pulis record as a manager is a water treader. He didn't spend a fortune because it was never given to him to spend, doesn't stop him having his eye to the main chance though. he proved that by trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve (because he had every intention of leaving and the bonus was contactually linked to future commitment to the club).

Both DID walk because of lack of funds to spend that summer yes, you are repeating what I have already said there. Wake up.

And finally, for the 'dumbarse of the day award' we are hardly a Championship squad when we have already survived and established ourselves in the Premiership over more than one season. We haven't been relegated (yet) and until we are we are a Premiership squad. May not be a squad with the depth and quality of Man City but the clue is the division we are in and our final league position. Before you start attributing that all to your heros Pulis and Alardyce I'd point out that is their job and that Roy has achieved far bigger escapes with no point, no goals in the first 7 games.
Ignorance is bliss though eh fella?

 

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Jul 19 11.08am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by est1905

The reason Alardyce didn't take a job for 6 months is because he knew he'd look really bad after just saying he has retired and had enough. Secondly it took Everton 6 months to come forward. If they'd offered him the job a month after leaving Palace he'd have taken it. Its YOU thats an idiot if you cannot see that.

Pulis record as a manager is a water treader. He didn't spend a fortune because it was never given to him to spend, doesn't stop him having his eye to the main chance though. he proved that by trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve (because he had every intention of leaving and the bonus was contactually linked to future commitment to the club).

Both DID walk because of lack of funds to spend that summer yes, you are repeating what I have already said there. Wake up.

And finally, for the 'dumbarse of the day award' we are hardly a Championship squad when we have already survived and established ourselves in the Premiership over more than one season. We haven't been relegated (yet) and until we are we are a Premiership squad. May not be a squad with the depth and quality of Man City but the clue is the division we are in and our final league position. Before you start attributing that all to your heros Pulis and Alardyce I'd point out that is their job and that Roy has achieved far bigger escapes with no point, no goals in the first 7 games.
Ignorance is bliss though eh fella?

I have no desire to engage in a discussion regarding the reasons for the departures of Pulis and Allardyce.

All I would add is that it would be perhaps a tad churlish not to give them some credit for saving us from the dreaded drop.

When Allardyce arrived we were 17th after 17 games with just 15 pts on the board and we finished in 14th place.It certainly wasn't looking good for us after that horrific 0-4 defeat to Sunderland !
When Pulis arrived we were 19th after 12 games with just 7 pts on the board and we survived finishing a very creditable 11th so mission accomplished.

Hodgson of course performed miracles in keeping us up last season after that dastardly start so credit to him as well.


Edited by Willo (30 Jul 2019 11.13am)

 

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bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 30 Jul 19 11.16am Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

I have no desire to engage in a discussion regarding the reasons for the departures of Pulis and Allardyce.

All I would add is that it would be perhaps a tad churlish not to give them some credit for saving us from the dreaded drop.

When Allardyce arrived we were 17th after 17 games with just 15 pts on the board and we finished in 14th place.It certainly wasn't looking good for us after that horrific 0-4 defeat to Sunderland !
When Pulis arrived we were 19th after 12 games with just 7 pts on the board and we survived finishing a verty creditable 11th so mission accomplished.

Hodgson of course performed miracles in keeping us up last season after that dastardly start so credit to him as well.


Totally agree, for the reasons you've stated.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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Midlands Eagle Flag 30 Jul 19 11.22am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by est1905

Pulis record as a manager is a water treader. He didn't spend a fortune because it was never given to him to spend, doesn't stop him having his eye to the main chance though. he proved that by trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve (because he had every intention of leaving and the bonus was contactually linked to future commitment to the club).

I wonder how many times we've all gone over this in the past.

You posted that "trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve" which isn't true as he did deserve it as he saved us from the relegation that everyone of us thought was going to happen. If you had posted that he tried to take a bonus that he wasn't contractually entitled to" it would have been more truthful.

 

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bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 30 Jul 19 12.02pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I wonder how many times we've all gone over this in the past.

You posted that "trying to con Parish out of a bonus he did not deserve" which isn't true as he did deserve it as he saved us from the relegation that everyone of us thought was going to happen. If you had posted that he tried to take a bonus that he wasn't contractually entitled to" it would have been more truthful.


Plus Pulis was within weeks of being able to receive the contractual bonus legitimately and it was a matter that probably could and should have been sorted out amicably with a bit more adult behaviour on both sides.

Cue the "a court found in our favour" and "Parish showed no one pushes Palace around" comments.
A legal process allowed us to pay a pittance to all those local traders who'd done business, in good faith, with CPFC2000; just because the law allows it doesn't always make it something to be proud of.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 30 Jul 19 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Yes Dave.

 


COYP

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Painter Flag Croydon 30 Jul 19 1.17pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by bexleydave


Plus Pulis was within weeks of being able to receive the contractual bonus legitimately and it was a matter that probably could and should have been sorted out amicably with a bit more adult behaviour on both sides.

Cue the "a court found in our favour" and "Parish showed no one pushes Palace around" comments.
A legal process allowed us to pay a pittance to all those local traders who'd done business, in good faith, with CPFC2000; just because the law allows it doesn't always make it something to be proud of.

It would be more truthful, if you stated the administrator for CPFC2000 paid the local traders a pittance not Parish.
I don’t see Jordan wracked with guilt over the debts he left behind.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 30 Jul 19 1.28pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

It would be more truthful, if you stated the administrator for CPFC2000 paid the local traders a pittance not Parish.
I don’t see Jordan wracked with guilt over the debts he left behind.

Who paid St John’s Ambulance?

Not Parish or CPFC 2010. It was the BBS members.

 


COYP

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