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Another black man shot by police in USA

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7mins Flag In the bush 19 Jul 16 4.34pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Because violence by the police against black people is violence against the black community?

Well, yes... but it seems strange that they now target only violence from police, when that is a tiny % of violence suffered against the black community.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Jul 16 6.41pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

Well, yes... but it seems strange that they now target only violence from police, when that is a tiny % of violence suffered against the black community.

That's because it's easier to mobilise liberal opinion against the police than it is to explore some of the uncomfortable truths about Black America.

That said, the police do close ranks to protect the force and that should hardly be a surprise as the same sort of attitude prevails in all sorts of institutions. Each case has to be assessed individually and the law should prevail, but If the police investigate themselves then we have a problem. There will always be a conflict of interests.

 

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7mins Flag In the bush 19 Jul 16 7.42pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That's because it's easier to mobilise liberal opinion against the police than it is to explore some of the uncomfortable truths about Black America.

That said, the police do close ranks to protect the force and that should hardly be a surprise as the same sort of attitude prevails in all sorts of institutions. Each case has to be assessed individually and the law should prevail, but If the police investigate themselves then we have a problem. There will always be a conflict of interests.

I make you right.

 

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legaleagle Flag 19 Jul 16 8.04pm

And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue...

I've spent time down around Baton Rouge and its more rural environs..To me,it was in some ways not so unlike the 60's and the prior Jim Crow days...people of one colour living on one side of the tracks,and of another colour on the other side.Local whites being openly racist with no embarrassment and not having any idea why I,as a "white", could possibly think it otherwise than "normal" and "reasonable" disparaging "black people" on the basis of race

...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary.

It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history...

Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t?

The police reflect the society they come from...

...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites..

So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon..

And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow..

Edited by legaleagle (19 Jul 2016 8.08pm)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Jul 16 8.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue...

I've spent time down around Baton Rouge and its more rural environs..To me,it was in some ways not so unlike the 60's and the prior Jim Crow days...people of one colour living on one side of the tracks,and of another colour on the other side.Local whites being openly racist with no embarrassment and not having any idea why I,as a "white", could possibly think it otherwise than "normal" and "reasonable" disparaging "black people" on the basis of race

...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary.

It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history...

Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t?

The police reflect the society they come from...

...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites..

So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon..

And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow..

Edited by legaleagle (19 Jul 2016 8.08pm)

There is no doubt that racist attitudes prevail in the USA, particularly in the Southern states. There is little point in denying that. That includes a significant number of Black racists as well of course.
I'm sure that contempt for other so called races is born from a number of different factors and it is not much of a stretch to imagine that a proportionate amount of that contempt exists in the police force.
The police do a very challenging job to protect the public so it is important that we only pursue those who break the law and not vilify the whole institution.
I appreciate that justice is not always easy to observe within a self policing system.

 

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 20 Jul 16 9.13am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

if you don't want to get shot don't pose of facebook with loads of guns giving it the biggun, secondly if a police officer says get out of the car and you reach inside your jacket expect what happens next.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Jul 16 9.56am

Originally posted by dannyh

if you don't want to get shot don't pose of facebook with loads of guns giving it the biggun, secondly if a police officer says get out of the car and you reach inside your jacket expect what happens next.

Yehaaa! Merica, f**k yeah!

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Jul 16 9.59am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

if you don't want to get shot don't pose of facebook with loads of guns giving it the biggun, secondly if a police officer says get out of the car and you reach inside your jacket expect what happens next.

So anyone who poses with guns on facebook is fair game for police to kill? Great policy.

Secondly, he told the officer he was legally armed, was asked to produce his license and papers (hence reaching into his pocket), and shot in the process - don't let the facts get in the way though.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Jul 16 10.00am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That's because it's easier to mobilise liberal opinion against the police than it is to explore some of the uncomfortable truths about Black America.

That said, the police do close ranks to protect the force and that should hardly be a surprise as the same sort of attitude prevails in all sorts of institutions. Each case has to be assessed individually and the law should prevail, but If the police investigate themselves then we have a problem. There will always be a conflict of interests.

Its also a lot more acceptable for society to blame racism in the police, rather than the racism in society.

Happened here with the MacPherson, and the 'Institutional Racism within the Police Force' which was probably true, but not just of the police, but of all of British society - Institutional racism as a concept occurs at a more unconscious and non-explicit level, being exhibited as acceptable forms of prejudice, that is considered acceptable by the majority of society.

At the same time as the MacPherson report, the same accusations could have been levelled at many institutions of the UK, private and public. However by limiting it to just the police, its possible to attribute blame and ignore the elephant in the room.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Jul 16 10.01am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue...

I've spent time down around Baton Rouge and its more rural environs..To me,it was in some ways not so unlike the 60's and the prior Jim Crow days...people of one colour living on one side of the tracks,and of another colour on the other side.Local whites being openly racist with no embarrassment and not having any idea why I,as a "white", could possibly think it otherwise than "normal" and "reasonable" disparaging "black people" on the basis of race

...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary.

It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history...

Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t?

The police reflect the society they come from...

...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites..

So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon..

And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow..
Edited by legaleagle (19 Jul 2016 8.08pm)

Exactly - I'm not sure why people are so keen to move the goalposts and focus on the obvious issues in the black community, rather than just admit an obvious truth - there is a problem with police unnecessarily killing black citizens.


Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (20 Jul 2016 10.01am)

 

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nairb75 Flag Baltimore 20 Jul 16 2.04pm Send a Private Message to nairb75 Add nairb75 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There is no doubt that racist attitudes prevail in the USA, particularly in the Southern states. There is little point in denying that. That includes a significant number of Black racists as well of course.
I'm sure that contempt for other so called races is born from a number of different factors and it is not much of a stretch to imagine that a proportionate amount of that contempt exists in the police force.
The police do a very challenging job to protect the public so it is important that we only pursue those who break the law and not vilify the whole institution.
I appreciate that justice is not always easy to observe within a self policing system.

see, that's what doesn't matter. it's the majority/dominant group racists that are the issue. if i'm a racist sikh in america, i'm just an a##hole - no one cares. if my group runs everything, then i can get away with a whole lot of racist activity, including murder in the name of police protection.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 20 Jul 16 4.39pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nairb75

see, that's what doesn't matter. it's the majority/dominant group racists that are the issue. if i'm a racist sikh in america, i'm just an a##hole - no one cares. if my group runs everything, then i can get away with a whole lot of racist activity, including murder in the name of police protection.

Not sure the families of those policeman killed would agree.

The trouble is, I don't hear too much protest about the killing of policeman or the innocent by criminals. All I hear is racist this racist that.

Had it occurred to you that there might be a direct link between the very disproportionate level of crime committed by black people and the racist sentiment you describe?
I'm sure that some good old boys just have hate in their hearts period, but that is not the whole story.

I know you might say that racism has caused black people to commit more crime but last time I looked, we could all make our own choices in life. Many black people are not criminals and do just fine. The President for one.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jul 2016 4.40pm)

 

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