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7mins In the bush 19 Jul 16 4.34pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Because violence by the police against black people is violence against the black community? Well, yes... but it seems strange that they now target only violence from police, when that is a tiny % of violence suffered against the black community.
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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Jul 16 6.41pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Well, yes... but it seems strange that they now target only violence from police, when that is a tiny % of violence suffered against the black community. That's because it's easier to mobilise liberal opinion against the police than it is to explore some of the uncomfortable truths about Black America. That said, the police do close ranks to protect the force and that should hardly be a surprise as the same sort of attitude prevails in all sorts of institutions. Each case has to be assessed individually and the law should prevail, but If the police investigate themselves then we have a problem. There will always be a conflict of interests.
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7mins In the bush 19 Jul 16 7.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That's because it's easier to mobilise liberal opinion against the police than it is to explore some of the uncomfortable truths about Black America. That said, the police do close ranks to protect the force and that should hardly be a surprise as the same sort of attitude prevails in all sorts of institutions. Each case has to be assessed individually and the law should prevail, but If the police investigate themselves then we have a problem. There will always be a conflict of interests. I make you right.
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legaleagle 19 Jul 16 8.04pm | |
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And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue... I've spent time down around Baton Rouge and its more rural environs..To me,it was in some ways not so unlike the 60's and the prior Jim Crow days...people of one colour living on one side of the tracks,and of another colour on the other side.Local whites being openly racist with no embarrassment and not having any idea why I,as a "white", could possibly think it otherwise than "normal" and "reasonable" disparaging "black people" on the basis of race ...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary. It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history... Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t? The police reflect the society they come from... ...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites.. So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon.. And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow.. Edited by legaleagle (19 Jul 2016 8.08pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Jul 16 8.27pm | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue... I've spent time down around Baton Rouge and its more rural environs..To me,it was in some ways not so unlike the 60's and the prior Jim Crow days...people of one colour living on one side of the tracks,and of another colour on the other side.Local whites being openly racist with no embarrassment and not having any idea why I,as a "white", could possibly think it otherwise than "normal" and "reasonable" disparaging "black people" on the basis of race ...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary. It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history... Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t? The police reflect the society they come from... ...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites.. So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon.. And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow.. Edited by legaleagle (19 Jul 2016 8.08pm) There is no doubt that racist attitudes prevail in the USA, particularly in the Southern states. There is little point in denying that. That includes a significant number of Black racists as well of course.
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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 20 Jul 16 9.13am | |
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if you don't want to get shot don't pose of facebook with loads of guns giving it the biggun, secondly if a police officer says get out of the car and you reach inside your jacket expect what happens next.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Jul 16 9.56am | |
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Originally posted by dannyh
if you don't want to get shot don't pose of facebook with loads of guns giving it the biggun, secondly if a police officer says get out of the car and you reach inside your jacket expect what happens next. Yehaaa! Merica, f**k yeah!
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 20 Jul 16 9.59am | |
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Originally posted by dannyh
if you don't want to get shot don't pose of facebook with loads of guns giving it the biggun, secondly if a police officer says get out of the car and you reach inside your jacket expect what happens next. So anyone who poses with guns on facebook is fair game for police to kill? Great policy. Secondly, he told the officer he was legally armed, was asked to produce his license and papers (hence reaching into his pocket), and shot in the process - don't let the facts get in the way though.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Jul 16 10.00am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That's because it's easier to mobilise liberal opinion against the police than it is to explore some of the uncomfortable truths about Black America. That said, the police do close ranks to protect the force and that should hardly be a surprise as the same sort of attitude prevails in all sorts of institutions. Each case has to be assessed individually and the law should prevail, but If the police investigate themselves then we have a problem. There will always be a conflict of interests. Its also a lot more acceptable for society to blame racism in the police, rather than the racism in society. Happened here with the MacPherson, and the 'Institutional Racism within the Police Force' which was probably true, but not just of the police, but of all of British society - Institutional racism as a concept occurs at a more unconscious and non-explicit level, being exhibited as acceptable forms of prejudice, that is considered acceptable by the majority of society. At the same time as the MacPherson report, the same accusations could have been levelled at many institutions of the UK, private and public. However by limiting it to just the police, its possible to attribute blame and ignore the elephant in the room.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 20 Jul 16 10.01am | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue... I've spent time down around Baton Rouge and its more rural environs..To me,it was in some ways not so unlike the 60's and the prior Jim Crow days...people of one colour living on one side of the tracks,and of another colour on the other side.Local whites being openly racist with no embarrassment and not having any idea why I,as a "white", could possibly think it otherwise than "normal" and "reasonable" disparaging "black people" on the basis of race ...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary. It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history... Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t? The police reflect the society they come from... ...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites.. So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon.. And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow.. Exactly - I'm not sure why people are so keen to move the goalposts and focus on the obvious issues in the black community, rather than just admit an obvious truth - there is a problem with police unnecessarily killing black citizens.
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nairb75 Baltimore 20 Jul 16 2.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
There is no doubt that racist attitudes prevail in the USA, particularly in the Southern states. There is little point in denying that. That includes a significant number of Black racists as well of course. see, that's what doesn't matter. it's the majority/dominant group racists that are the issue. if i'm a racist sikh in america, i'm just an a##hole - no one cares. if my group runs everything, then i can get away with a whole lot of racist activity, including murder in the name of police protection.
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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Jul 16 4.39pm | |
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Originally posted by nairb75
see, that's what doesn't matter. it's the majority/dominant group racists that are the issue. if i'm a racist sikh in america, i'm just an a##hole - no one cares. if my group runs everything, then i can get away with a whole lot of racist activity, including murder in the name of police protection. Not sure the families of those policeman killed would agree. The trouble is, I don't hear too much protest about the killing of policeman or the innocent by criminals. All I hear is racist this racist that. Had it occurred to you that there might be a direct link between the very disproportionate level of crime committed by black people and the racist sentiment you describe? I know you might say that racism has caused black people to commit more crime but last time I looked, we could all make our own choices in life. Many black people are not criminals and do just fine. The President for one. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jul 2016 4.40pm)
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