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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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Teddy Eagle Flag 25 Sep 19 12.19pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It obviously is for some people!

Still waiting for a reply on whose decision the lawfulness of prorogation would have been prior to the establishment of the Supreme Court. Would it not have been the House of Lords?

 

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cpfc_chap Flag koh samui 25 Sep 19 12.22pm Send a Private Message to cpfc_chap Add cpfc_chap as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well their age group drove Brexit. What does that tell us?

A lot of remain voters will be pushing up daisys to...

 

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becky Flag over the moon 25 Sep 19 12.26pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

As he accepts. He also accepts the Judges were entirely correct to create new Law in this circumstance.

Judges cannot create new law - Parliament creates Law, judges enforce it.

God, I'm beginning to sound like Wisbeach now

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Stirlingsays Flag 25 Sep 19 12.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well their age group drove Brexit. What does that tell us?

Well youth are more ignorant and less knowledgeable of the world yet vote majority left.

What does that tell us?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 25 Sep 19 12.31pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The problem you don't seem to be recognising here is that unless we leave all these 'vetos' you talk about are subject to decisions by the EU commission based upon what treaty there is. EU leaders have already made it plain that an EU military separate from NATO is how they want to go.....Are you seriously suggesting that when the time for a vote on that comes they are going to have vetos?

Pray tell me, what opportunity was the public given on any of the treaties UK governments signed up to? Yet it's clear to see that there was never popular support for most of the later ones.

Hell the public only received this referendum opportunity via a Prime Minister trying to shore up internal support....there was zero parliamentary will for giving the public a say on the EU at all.

The longer we leave...leaving as it were then the more beaten down and demographically shifted the country becomes. Unless the UK leaves now, it's not going to get that opportunity again.

Then all your talk about no EU army and veto this or veto that soon becomes antiquated.

This isn't entirely true. The mooted common defence policy, again if you do some reading, is very very different to a Federal army.

Also, any treaty that forced all member states to sign up to an EU Army system would never pass. Yes, on something as sensitive as eliminating member states independent armed forces, there would be vetos, and it would need to be 100% agreed, at least to implement it as a EU wide policy. To say otherwise is unrealistic, fantasy and fearmongering.

I assume you're referring to the Lisbon treaty, the facts of which have been massively abused by various influencers for the usual ad clicks and follows.

Main points being

• The UK also doesn’t have to participate in EU legislation relating to justice and home affairs, but can choose to opt-in if it wants to.

• On issues that require unanimity, it’s the case that simply abstaining from a vote does not stop it passing (the Lisbon Treaty did not change this), but states can still veto by voting against.

• The UK still has an opt out on the Euro

• Nowhere in the Lisbon treaty is an 'EU Army' or 'Federal Army' mentioned.

To add, given the significant amount of grief this entire process has caused politics and politicians, if you really believe that a UK govt would simply go 'Yeah, alright, let's do it without telling anyone', surely you're mad. Or a little too partisan, at least on this particular issue.

The public feeling on retaining our own identity, let alone currency/army, would be loud and challenging. Whoever passed those little doozys without so much as a thought to due process would be voted out straightaway. It would be political suicide.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 19 12.35pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Her Majesty walked right into this didn't she?

Can she sack Johnson?

She is involved now and its her own fault.

A written constitution would hopefully end the monarch's role in other than PR matters.

She did no more and no less than her constitutional duty. She followed the advice given to her, as by convention she must, and it is that advice alone that has been determined as illegal.

So I don't believe she is involved in any way.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 25 Sep 19 12.37pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

This isn't entirely true. The mooted common defence policy, again if you do some reading, is very very different to a Federal army.

Also, any treaty that forced all member states to sign up to an EU Army system would never pass. Yes, on something as sensitive as eliminating member states independent armed forces, there would be vetos, and it would need to be 100% agreed, at least to implement it as a EU wide policy. To say otherwise is unrealistic, fantasy and fearmongering.

I assume you're referring to the Lisbon treaty, the facts of which have been massively abused by various influencers for the usual ad clicks and follows.

Main points being

• The UK also doesn’t have to participate in EU legislation relating to justice and home affairs, but can choose to opt-in if it wants to.

• On issues that require unanimity, it’s the case that simply abstaining from a vote does not stop it passing (the Lisbon Treaty did not change this), but states can still veto by voting against.

• The UK still has an opt out on the Euro

• Nowhere in the Lisbon treaty is an 'EU Army' or 'Federal Army' mentioned.

To add, given the significant amount of grief this entire process has caused politics and politicians, if you really believe that a UK govt would simply go 'Yeah, alright, let's do it without telling anyone', surely you're mad. Or a little too partisan, at least on this particular issue.

The public feeling on retaining our own identity, let alone currency/army, would be loud and challenging. Whoever passed those little doozys without so much as a thought to due process would be voted out straightaway. It would be political suicide.

Well I always enjoy reading your posts and I agree that as things are currently we can veto an 'EU Army'.

Still, pretty much what I stated is valid.

Unlees we leave in some fashion now.....it's going to happen and 'vetos' and all the rest of it will become things of the past as this EU empire looks to concrete itself in.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 12.38pm)

EU1.JPG Attachment: EU1.JPG (65.83Kb)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 19 12.48pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The highest court has not spoken as the highest court is the Houses of Parliament. The Privvy Council would be the highest court.
Of course, the final appeal these days would be to European Courts!

Parliament is not a Court and nor is the Privy Council. Parliament makes the law. The Courts apply the law.

The European Court does not, so far as I am aware, get involved in the national law of any EU member so would not be available in this matter.

I think the buck has stopped unless and until Parliament decides to kick it again.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 25 Sep 19 12.51pm Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

She did no more and no less than her constitutional duty. She followed the advice given to her, as by convention she must, and it is that advice alone that has been determined as illegal.

So I don't believe she is involved in any way.

Unlawful, not illegal, as Becky rightly points out.

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 25 Sep 19 12.53pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

'Boris bus' maker Wrightbus goes into administration
Collapse puts more than 1,400 jobs at risk and is second major UK insolvency this week

Another day of Johnson, another disaster.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 25 Sep 19 12.56pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

'Boris bus' maker Wrightbus goes into administration
Collapse puts more than 1,400 jobs at risk and is second major UK insolvency this week

Another day of Johnson, another disaster.

Thanks Obama.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 19 1.04pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

I think Becky was commenting on your failure to distinguish between illegal and unlawful. They are not the same, although you thought the issue semantic.

The effect being identical the difference is indeed semantic but was acknowledged. It wasn't though just made up. There is plenty of support on the web. This being just one:-

"Black's Law Dictionary defines unlawful as "not authorized by law, illegal." Illegal is defined as "forbidden by law, unlawful." Semantically, there is a slight difference. It seems that something illegal is expressly proscribed by statute, and something unlawful is just not expressly authorized."

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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