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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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BlueJay Flag UK 05 May 22 7.49pm

'There will be no mercy': Russian TV host threatens 'concentration camps and sterilisation' for 'opponents of the letter Z' - [Link]

A prominent Russian state TV host has warned that opponents of Russia's war in Ukraine will face harsh punishments including 'concentration camps and sterilisation'.

Karen Shakhnazarov, a pro-Putin filmmaker, said any 'opponents to the letter Z' - the symbol of Russia's invasion - will face 'no mercy'.

'The opponents of the letter Z must understand that if they are counting on mercy, no, there will be no mercy for them,' Shakhnazarov, who leads the state-backed Mosfilm film studio, said on the state-owned Russian television channel Russia 1.

'It's all become very serious. In this case, it means concentration camps, re-education and sterilisation.'

In a similar tone to that of Shakhnazarov's, Putin recently likened opposition figures to 'gnats' and 'traitors' who try to weaken the country at the behest of the West. The Russian President called for the county to 'purify' itself of the opposition.

'The Russian people will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and will simply spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths — spit them out on the pavement,' Putin said in March.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 05 May 22 8.18pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

By all means criticise aspects of your own society and media (most do).. but if you go so full tilt that you end up acting like a perpetual Kremlin mouthpiece, a Russian propoganda outlet, then that's not ideal either. It just comes off like you've become so dislocated from your own society that you're easy pickings for and unquestioning of 'any' influence beyond that. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because most tune out so any balancing factors just go out of the window. If it wasn't this it's something else and the only ones who encourage it are on a similar trajectory. 'Alt media' junkies huddled together for warmth; scoffing at 'normies'.


Edited by BlueJay (05 May 2022 5.47pm)

It is a good post by W12 but I agree with you here.

 


COYP

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The groover Flag Danbury 05 May 22 8.42pm Send a Private Message to The groover Add The groover as a friend

Originally posted by W12

"Mass Graves"

[Link]

This reminds me of Karen on FB.

So where was the interview with the "Ukrainian grave diggers" then? Anyone can do this type of interview.

You just have to look at the images coming out of Ukraine to see the truth.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 05 May 22 9.05pm

Originally posted by The groover


You just have to look at the images coming out of Ukraine to see the truth.

Indeed. The inherent nature of what is clearly happening makes a complete farse of a one eyed demonisation of the Ukranian people.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 06 May 22 12.49am

Russian Army Recruitment Office Attacked With Molotov Cocktails - [Link]

The incident in Nizhnevartovsk follows a string of similar attacks across the country. Five other military recruitment offices have already been targeted by Molotov attacks since the start of Russia’s war with Ukraine on Feb. 24.


There have been so many 'fires' in Russia of late, that there's surely a case to be made that some may be Russian resistence rather than external forces. Rumours of a very significant fall in those wanting to take part in polls (speaking out against Russia isn't really an option). It may be that some hold tremendously anger about what is being waged as their name. Who can blame them.

Edited by BlueJay (06 May 2022 1.16am)

 

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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 06 May 22 1.09am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Hahahhahhahaha Jesus wept.

I don't have anything further to say to you. It's an entirely pointless conversation and I'd rather discuss Ukraine, the topic of the thread.

It's not about who said what, it's about who lied. All to make you appear a victim of my malicious words. Can't back up what you say, so you feign hilarity. You're a liar. You know you are, but you aren't grown up enough to admit it. Everyone else can see that you lied too. Not that you seem to care.

And now the standard response from you. But, please, have nothing more to say to me. Do that one small favour for me.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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BlueJay Flag UK 06 May 22 1.12am

I don't want the thread to keep going off topic this like out of nowehere. All I can personally do to achieve that is ignore this stuff, so that's what I'll be doing.

 

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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 06 May 22 1.17am Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

I don't want the thread to keep going off topic this like out of nowehere. All I can personally do to achieve that is ignore this stuff, so that's what I'll be doing.

Of course. You get caught out again, and you resign before you answer. Exemplifies you.

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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BlueJay Flag UK 06 May 22 1.17am

Originally posted by BlueJay

There have been so many 'fires' and attacks in Russia or late, that there's a case to be made that it's Russian resistence rather than external forces. Rumours of a very significant fall in those wnting to take part in polls (speaking out against Russia isn't really an option). It may be that some hold tremendously anger about what is being waged as their name. As they well should.

See what I mean..

Mysterious Russian fires that may relate to Ukrainian conflict


Stavrolen polyolefins plant, Budennovsk - 26th of February

[Link]

Ammo depot, Belgorod - 29th of March

[Link]

Oil depot fire, Belgorod - 1st of April

[Link]

Chemical factory, Kineshma - 21st of April

[Link]

RKK Energia's Space Defense Centre, Korolev - 21st of April

[Link]

Army research center, Tver - 22nd of April

[Link]

5 enlistment / conscription offices - 22nd of April

[Link]

A house burning in Barvikha, belonging to the family of the governor of the Moscow region Andrey Vorobyov - 23rd of April

[Link]

Oil storage facility / refinery, Bryansk - 25th of April

[Link]

Other storage etc. depots, Belgorod, Voronezh and Kurzk - 27th of April

[Link]

Coal plant, Sakhalin - 30th of April

[Link]

Gunpowder plant fire, Perm - 1st of May

[Link]

Publishing house, Moscow - 3rd of May

[Link]

Fuel / oil storages, Nizhny Novgorod - 4th of May

[Link]

Enlistment office, Nizhnevartovsk - 4th of May

[Link]

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 06 May 22 2.27am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by The groover

This reminds me of Karen on FB.

So where was the interview with the "Ukrainian grave diggers" then? Anyone can do this type of interview.

You just have to look at the images coming out of Ukraine to see the truth.

That's one version of the truth.

Don't you think the Russians aren't also showing their populations video and images that back their narratives?

You aren't seeing anything negative carried out by the Ukrainians are you....that's deliberate policy....is that 'seeing the truth'?

I suggest that if you think our media tell the truth but theirs don't you are making an error as both lie and both craft narratives omitting negatives on their side they favour.

For example, I watched video today of an Ukrainian military unit saying that they would take no Russian prisoners. I bet you haven't seen that.

I've seen war crimes being carried out by the Ukrainians that have been ignored by the western media that if it had been Russians it would have been front page news. The videos are out there.....is that Russian propaganda?

When the video of Ukrainian troops shooting Russian POWs in the knees and leaving them to slowly die emerged the Ukrainians said they would investigate.....that was a month ago and nothing....have you noticed the western media inquire? I haven't either.

When you talk about the truth. I think it's important to acknowledge that it's a highly curated version and that certainty is extremely difficult.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 May 2022 2.28am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 06 May 22 3.14am

What the 'alternative media' zealots fail to comprehend is that no-one here even believes or has said that Ukranian's act in some kind of perpetually saintly fashion during the invasion and brutal attack on their country. They are simply properly weighing the pertinent fact that said invasion has and is being inflicted upon these people (by a militarily stronger neighbour).

This idea that there's some kind of equatable culpability demanding of equal attention is ridiculous. If, in this country, someone breaks into your home, threatening rape or murder or at least intentionally puts your life seriously at risk, how do you want that perceived? Do you want the onus to be on the expectation that the violent intruder shouldn't have been there and that you have a right to fight back against said invasion? Or instead that the 'both sides brigade' look for a way to not only highlight your defence of your own home in a negative light, but even go so far (W12 style) as cobbling together a 'greatest hits' of everything you or yours have ever done wrong over the past 40 years to legitimise the attack on you or diminish its importance?

People ought think back to the Tony Martin example (tho this is of course significantly more stark and aggressive). If you're under attack, you only spend so much time considering those who attack you. That's real life. That is how besieged people behave when they are fighting for their lives and don't know if they will even see another day. Most intuitively understand that. Those looking to alternative media to tell them what to think though, apparently struggle to draw from any existing moral framework, perspective or previously held view.

Any war crime matters - to be honest, the media here haven't even gone into significant visual detail over tortue other than mentions of mass graves etc because it's hardly family viewing. But the primary event of massive aggression and cause of significiant civilian death (during an invasion which was and remains entirely optional) is what these moments are all set within, and that is inevitably therefore the heavy focus and emphasis (which further highlights how bizarre it is that some hold Russian 'coverage' as equivilant to our own). It pays to remember that those singing from the Kremlin hymn sheet don't even want countries to provide military assistance to the Ukranian people (due to their own fears). They would have them left to the wolves, with their ability to defend themselves stripped away. Cowards berating the brave.

Edited by BlueJay (06 May 2022 4.35am)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 06 May 22 4.59am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The point was made about truth. It wasn't made about the right of defence, which I have always agreed with.

As for the constant criticism of alternative media, well all media lies however it's something when those who instinctively know the establishment will lie and omit....themselves turn into establishment mouthpieces.

At least with alternative media you get to see the footage and hear different takes. You can also reject alternative views as well. However, if you're interested in actually pursuing anything closer to a truth just hearing your own side is like going deaf in one ear.

I will make the point that when you arm one side of a war, what you then have isn't the Ukraine v Russia, but a version of Ukraine/Nato v Russia. That has far reaching consequences. Like with the covid response those consequences are far more damaging than the original event itself. Many more people will die....but they won't be in the headlines so the usual suspects won't bother....regarded as necessary cost.

What has happened to the Ukraine is wrong, but the Ukraine isn't in Nato. I don't support a cold war that will hurt all of us.
What I would have supported was the arming and defending of Nato countries as the treaty actually states.

I'm not looking for easy virtue signalling points and constantly putting myself forward as a moral voice. I'm thinking much further ahead....the damage of creating a China/Russia block is incalculable in so many future situations. This was a bad hand from the start and all we have seen is double down.

I was always for a quick peace, I think some commentators have spoken about desiring peace while simultaneously supporting prolonging the war....both can't be true. What they actually want, in my view, is Russian capitulation....which actually requires a much longer war and will mean countless more deaths on both sides both military and civilian on the Ukrainian....not to mention the conscription that has been demonstrated against.

I don't support artificiality continuing this war. If someone wants to fight let them, however I don't encourage it because this is a largely meaningless border war that has been turned into a world event...when the Yemen was ignored...and its motive is money and power for the powerful with the vulnerable suffering....it's not morality like some claim. It's about the destruction of one power block over another...It isn't morality to put the world back into highly dangerous economic cold war while fighting another one via proxy.

I've made my points about where responsibility lies for the lead up to this war. However I have never agreed with Putin's decision to invade as I think there were other options open to him but this is where we are.

As opinion, over time, turned against the lockdowns. I think that opinion will turn against this war the longer it is suffered and the poorer we become.....that's on both sides.

Now I'm going to respond to this idea that if you're for serious and sensible peace negotiations rather than active prolonging of the war and that being afraid of nuclear destruction somehow means you're a coward then....well Jesus wept, it's the potential destruction of humanity with its civilization.

If someone is personally directing that at me. Saying that I'm a f***ing coward come and say that to my face. Other words are available. In my view a coward is someone who would suggest physical cowardice from the safety of their keyboard. Anyone can do that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 May 2022 5.26am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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