CONservative government incompetence.

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CONservative government incompetence.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Oct 22 9.52am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle We don’t need an election. The uncertainty and disruption that would cause is the last thing we need now. What we need is for our MPs to force the government to reverse many of their tax cuts by voting them down. If they resist then they hold a vote of no confidence and replace the PM. I suggested weeks ago that Truss could be the shortest serving PM not to die in office. The fact that we have full employment and employers are struggling to recruit makes the idea we can grow our way out of this even more ridiculous. The measures have not yet been implemented so their impact on the economy has not yet been felt, but the markets reactions tell you what to expect. Interesting days lie ahead. These could be make or break days for the Tories. I The current full employment is false and not the original definition. I’d like to see data on many of the numbers claiming so we know more rather than stereotypes and guesswork. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 13 Oct 22 9.52am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We don’t need an election. The uncertainty and disruption that would cause is the last thing we need now.

What we need is for our MPs to force the government to reverse many of their tax cuts by voting them down. If they resist then they hold a vote of no confidence and replace the PM. I suggested weeks ago that Truss could be the shortest serving PM not to die in office.

The fact that we have full employment and employers are struggling to recruit makes the idea we can grow our way out of this even more ridiculous.

The measures have not yet been implemented so their impact on the economy has not yet been felt, but the markets reactions tell you what to expect.

Interesting days lie ahead. These could be make or break days for the Tories. I

The current full employment is false and not the original definition. I’d like to see data on many of the numbers claiming so we know more rather than stereotypes and guesswork.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Oct 22 11.58am
Originally posted by Matov But what warning lights? Inflation is coming down. Unemployment is down (the problem is to many jobs available). And since when has a policy of reducing taxes been something a Conservative is not meant to support? OK, perhaps playing Devils Advocate on this but all I seem to see is hysteria. I genuinely believe that the elites want an election because they want Starmer in number 10 by way of pushing us back into the EU. 100% what Washington wants for all kinds of reasons. And more than happy to put the boot into this Tory Government but all I see is an economy doing fantastically well in some ways whilst generally suffering from a Covid hang-over that is impacting all over. What is wrong with wanting to put more money in people's pockets? Edited by Matov (13 Oct 2022 8.39am) Smart money in the markets doesn’t really take as much notice on the general feeling over a budget or what the media report after they’ve sold the sh1t out of it. Sorry but I don’t share the joy in our eco m doing fantastically well, even if it is in some ways. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 13 Oct 22 11.58am

Originally posted by Matov

But what warning lights? Inflation is coming down. Unemployment is down (the problem is to many jobs available).

And since when has a policy of reducing taxes been something a Conservative is not meant to support?

OK, perhaps playing Devils Advocate on this but all I seem to see is hysteria. I genuinely believe that the elites want an election because they want Starmer in number 10 by way of pushing us back into the EU. 100% what Washington wants for all kinds of reasons.

And more than happy to put the boot into this Tory Government but all I see is an economy doing fantastically well in some ways whilst generally suffering from a Covid hang-over that is impacting all over.

What is wrong with wanting to put more money in people's pockets?

Edited by Matov (13 Oct 2022 8.39am)

Smart money in the markets doesn’t really take as much notice on the general feeling over a budget or what the media report after they’ve sold the sh1t out of it.

Sorry but I don’t share the joy in our eco m doing fantastically well, even if it is in some ways.

COYP

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 22 12.16pm
Originally posted by cryrst Tax cuts, Which ones out of interest. I would reverse all of them, including the 1p off income tax, which impacts me as much as most. However, not going ahead with the increase to corporation tax is the most important. I see no evidence that doing this will increase investment in the current circumstances, and all it will do is encourage money to flow out of our economy and into safe havens. Relief for small businesses makes sense. Providing increased support for the poorest does too. Cutting the tax of the middle classes doesn't. There is a time for everything. This isn't the time to cut taxes because of an ideological commitment to doing so. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 22 12.16pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Tax cuts, Which ones out of interest.

I would reverse all of them, including the 1p off income tax, which impacts me as much as most.

However, not going ahead with the increase to corporation tax is the most important. I see no evidence that doing this will increase investment in the current circumstances, and all it will do is encourage money to flow out of our economy and into safe havens. Relief for small businesses makes sense. Providing increased support for the poorest does too. Cutting the tax of the middle classes doesn't.

There is a time for everything. This isn't the time to cut taxes because of an ideological commitment to doing so.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 22 12.30pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman The current full employment is false and not the original definition. I’d like to see data on many of the numbers claiming so we know more rather than stereotypes and guesswork. It might surprise you to know that I have no time for those who could work, but don't because they can manage on their benefits. Getting them all back into employment makes sense for everybody. So I would welcome an overhaul of the system. The problem seems to be finding something which doesn't penalise the genuinely needy. Many have tried, but none have succeeded. That's not to say it cannot be done, but it would take time and the provision of people and systems to handle it. It's a long term ambition and not a quick fix. So I think we must deal with what is, and not what ought to be. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 22 12.30pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

The current full employment is false and not the original definition. I’d like to see data on many of the numbers claiming so we know more rather than stereotypes and guesswork.

It might surprise you to know that I have no time for those who could work, but don't because they can manage on their benefits. Getting them all back into employment makes sense for everybody.

So I would welcome an overhaul of the system. The problem seems to be finding something which doesn't penalise the genuinely needy. Many have tried, but none have succeeded.

That's not to say it cannot be done, but it would take time and the provision of people and systems to handle it. It's a long term ambition and not a quick fix.

So I think we must deal with what is, and not what ought to be.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Oct 22 12.37pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It might surprise you to know that I have no time for those who could work, but don't because they can manage on their benefits. Getting them all back into employment makes sense for everybody. So I would welcome an overhaul of the system. The problem seems to be finding something which doesn't penalise the genuinely needy. Many have tried, but none have succeeded. That's not to say it cannot be done, but it would take time and the provision of people and systems to handle it. It's a long term ambition and not a quick fix. So I think we must deal with what is, and not what ought to be. Probably right there. The Tories addressed the incapacity benefit problem after 2010. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 13 Oct 22 12.37pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It might surprise you to know that I have no time for those who could work, but don't because they can manage on their benefits. Getting them all back into employment makes sense for everybody.

So I would welcome an overhaul of the system. The problem seems to be finding something which doesn't penalise the genuinely needy. Many have tried, but none have succeeded.

That's not to say it cannot be done, but it would take time and the provision of people and systems to handle it. It's a long term ambition and not a quick fix.

So I think we must deal with what is, and not what ought to be.

Probably right there. The Tories addressed the incapacity benefit problem after 2010.

COYP

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Badger11 Beckenham 13 Oct 22 12.52pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Probably right there. The Tories addressed the incapacity benefit problem after 2010. I think we need some imagination from the politicians. The stick has not worked as the numbers keep going up for sick and long term unemployed so maybe we should think about the carrot. They should look at why people don't want to work and what are the barriers. For the long term it is often the fear that coming off benefits for a short term work contract means that when it ends they have to go through the hassle of means testing again and may not get the same benefits as before. There is also the issue that the benefits stop the day they start work but they may not get paid for weeks. I would like to see some trials where the long term are allowed to continue claiming benefits for a short time even when they get a job. So they will not need to sign off and then back on and have to handle the break between benefits and wages. Short term this might cost the taxpayer money but if this gets that person back into work so what if they claimed 3 months unemployed benefit whilst working. Once back in work they are like the rest of us. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 13 Oct 22 12.52pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Probably right there. The Tories addressed the incapacity benefit problem after 2010.

I think we need some imagination from the politicians. The stick has not worked as the numbers keep going up for sick and long term unemployed so maybe we should think about the carrot.

They should look at why people don't want to work and what are the barriers.

For the long term it is often the fear that coming off benefits for a short term work contract means that when it ends they have to go through the hassle of means testing again and may not get the same benefits as before. There is also the issue that the benefits stop the day they start work but they may not get paid for weeks.

I would like to see some trials where the long term are allowed to continue claiming benefits for a short time even when they get a job. So they will not need to sign off and then back on and have to handle the break between benefits and wages.

Short term this might cost the taxpayer money but if this gets that person back into work so what if they claimed 3 months unemployed benefit whilst working. Once back in work they are like the rest of us.

One more point

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Oct 22 5.30pm
Originally posted by Spiderman You have failed to quote the rest of her sentence CP, presumably intentionally. And she is right we don’t need a GE. She said "mr speaker-i"m genuinely unclear-i"m genuinely unclear"-then sat down! And "we don"t need a general election, and sat down!"No cherry picking here spider- no intent at all, just reporting the facts!You mean SHE doesn"t need a General election, I think most of the country would welcome one! For a non CON Spider, you get very picky defending them!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 Oct 22 5.30pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

You have failed to quote the rest of her sentence CP, presumably intentionally.
And she is right we don’t need a GE.

She said "mr speaker-i"m genuinely unclear-i"m genuinely unclear"-then sat down! And "we don"t need a general election, and sat down!"No cherry picking here spider- no intent at all, just reporting the facts!You mean SHE doesn"t need a General election, I think most of the country would welcome one! For a non CON Spider, you get very picky defending them!

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Midlands Eagle 13 Oct 22 5.44pm
Originally posted by croydon proud SHE doesn"t need a General election, I think most of the country would welcome one! I'm not sure that you are correct as my feeling is that most people don't want to waste more time on elections whether it's voting for a leader or a General Election as the government would grind to a halt for yet more weeks
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Midlands Eagle

13 Oct 22 5.44pm

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Originally posted by croydon proud

SHE doesn"t need a General election, I think most of the country would welcome one!

I'm not sure that you are correct as my feeling is that most people don't want to waste more time on elections whether it's voting for a leader or a General Election as the government would grind to a halt for yet more weeks

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Oct 22 6.04pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I'm not sure that you are correct as my feeling is that most people don't want to waste more time on elections whether it's voting for a leader or a General Election as the government would grind to a halt for yet more weeks You could be right, but if we are going to get a new leader at CON HQ I think we should go to the country-you can only have so many un elected leaders !I can"t see her lasting long- the CONS are already planning i"m told.
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 Oct 22 6.04pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You could be right, but if we are going to get a new leader at CON HQ I think we should go to the country-you can only have so many un elected leaders !I can"t see her lasting long- the CONS are already planning i"m told.

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steeleye20 Croydon 13 Oct 22 6.34pm
I think there ought to be a general erection.
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steeleye20

Croydon 13 Oct 22 6.34pm

I think there ought to be a general erection.

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cryrst The garden of England 13 Oct 22 7.05pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It might surprise you to know that I have no time for those who could work, but don't because they can manage on their benefits. Getting them all back into employment makes sense for everybody. So I would welcome an overhaul of the system. The problem seems to be finding something which doesn't penalise the genuinely needy. Many have tried, but none have succeeded. That's not to say it cannot be done, but it would take time and the provision of people and systems to handle it. It's a long term ambition and not a quick fix. So I think we must deal with what is, and not what ought to be. What and who decides the genuinely needy then? I see plenty of these people with new cars, iPhones and a lovely way of life. Hmg has tried to filter the liars and frauds but if one genuine person gets a rough deal by way of hmg trying to sort it there is a march or something. There will always be collateral damage when decisions and changes are made on policies. It’s how it goes.
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cryrst

The garden of England 13 Oct 22 7.05pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It might surprise you to know that I have no time for those who could work, but don't because they can manage on their benefits. Getting them all back into employment makes sense for everybody.

So I would welcome an overhaul of the system. The problem seems to be finding something which doesn't penalise the genuinely needy. Many have tried, but none have succeeded.

That's not to say it cannot be done, but it would take time and the provision of people and systems to handle it. It's a long term ambition and not a quick fix.

So I think we must deal with what is, and not what ought to be.

What and who decides the genuinely needy then?
I see plenty of these people with new cars, iPhones and a lovely way of life.
Hmg has tried to filter the liars and frauds but if one genuine person gets a rough deal by way of hmg trying to sort it there is a march or something. There will always be collateral damage when decisions and changes are made on policies. It’s how it goes.

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Teddy Eagle 13 Oct 22 7.14pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I think there ought to be a general erection. Coordination might be an issue.
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Teddy Eagle

13 Oct 22 7.14pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think there ought to be a general erection.

Coordination might be an issue.

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