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legaleagle Flag 13 Mar 15 9.03am

Quote Stirlingsays at 13 Mar 2015 6.48am

I think we can be sure that there won't be Christmas cards exchanged between you three.

Anyway....I declare that UKIP have officially won this thread by sheer force and rationality of argument and that both Legal and Nick will shortly be exported....Sent back to their ideological home of.....

SSR.

(Socialist Republic of Scotland)

That's at least two more homes back on the market in England.


Please at least expel me to a place with a warmer climate when the UKIP paradise era dawns and us dissenters are kicked out

 

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legaleagle Flag 13 Mar 15 9.38am

[Link]


"On the same day that Farage’s comments surfaced, it emerged that a council-owned company in Carmarthenshire had recently advertised for “recycling operatives”, noting the ability to speak Polish would be an advantage.

The company defended itself by saying a shared language was helpful as they already had lots of Polish workers, who were good, reliable people. Presumably they were also willing to tolerate what the ad calls long periods of standing and being “targeted on your picking rates” in return for minimum wage, and to be available for work between 5am and 7pm, shifts that would be unlikely to suit families.

Are Poles getting these jobs and others like them, all over the country, because employers are too crippled by political correctness to choose Britons? Or because young, often childless, migrant workers are disproportionately able and willing to take tough, low-paid, jobs, at least until they’ve saved enough to go home to Poland and buy a house?

It is the left that’s usually accused of the politics of envy, of not knowing how to lift those at the bottom and thus relying on dragging down those at the top. But what is striking is how much the right now relies on fostering envy too, although in their case not of the rich but of those who never had much: foreigners in minimum wage jobs, benefit claimants, anyone who seems to have something you don’t.

If politicians have nothing much to give people – no instant solution for creating millions of jobs and equipping people to compete for them – then the next best thing is to take something from their rivals: to create the illusion of progress for some by holding others back."

 

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Hoof Hearted 13 Mar 15 9.46am

Can the Mods please lock this thread..... it is really boring now.

The main participants could just as easily exchange insults by PM

 

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DanH Flag SW2 13 Mar 15 9.51am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Quote Hoof Hearted at 13 Mar 2015 9.46am

Can the Mods please lock this thread..... it is really boring now.

The main participants could just as easily exchange insults by PM


Hear hear.

 

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 13 Mar 15 10.51am Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 13 Mar 2015 9.38am


Are Poles getting these jobs and others like them, all over the country, because employers are too crippled by political correctness to choose Britons? Or because young, often childless, migrant workers are disproportionately able and willing to take tough, low-paid, jobs, at least until they’ve saved enough to go home to Poland and buy a house?


Definitely the latter - did some work with the UK Border Agency around illegal workers specifically a few years ago and it is shocking how exploitative the whole business can be and its not just by 'fly by night' operations either, some are huge 'respectable' multi-nationals.

The 'immigrant worker' (legal or otherwise) often endured unsafe and very low paid working conditions.

The 'indigenous worker' simply couldn't compete and take certain jobs because of the low pay.

Guess who the winner is in the whole scenario - the big corporations and businesses who thanks to revised legislation stayed just on the right side of legal (mostly) and get a compliant, terrified and willing workforce for a fraction of their former labour costs.

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Mar 15 12.36pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 13 Mar 2015 9.46am

Can the Mods please lock this thread..... it is really boring now.

The main participants could just as easily exchange insults by PM


Check your pm's

 

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imbored Flag UK 13 Mar 15 3.00pm

Quote matt_himself at 13 Mar 2015 12.02am

Quote nickgusset at 12 Mar 2015 11.56pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Mar 2015 11.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Mar 2015 11.47pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Mar 2015 11.41pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Mar 2015 11.37pm

Quote legaleagle at 12 Mar 2015 11.36pm


Wow sure is one rapier sharp wit you possess


Don't feed the troll

Says the self righteous sort who pursues you for several weeks for an answer to a question on Green Education policy.

You are the troll Gusset. Plus an unintelligent one too boot.


Have you grasped ye difference between the trade and budget deficit or do you need another explanation?

Or do you want to again tell me I am a c*** for thinking that the increase in the trade deficit is driving people to food banks?&#128512;

That old chestnut. Change the record.
What has this got to do with UKIP?

You highlighted a spelling error that you used to insinuate I was stupid and hypocritical.

I turned that back by highlighting that you speak a lot about things you don't understand.

Your deflection tactics of 'what has this got to do with UKIP' are highlighted as hypocrisy as you will use any trick to try to highlight the chinks you perceive in your opponents armour and turn attention away from your intellectual shortcomings.

I think you are a bit dim and don't really get what you are talking about. That is my observation. Plus I beleive you are self centred and want what is best for you and your chums at the expense of others. You hide this behind a mask of socialism do goodism.

WANT ME TO CARRY ON?

The perils of midweek drinking.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Mar 15 4.56pm

Quote imbored at 13 Mar 2015 3.00pm

Quote matt_himself at 13 Mar 2015 12.02am

Quote nickgusset at 12 Mar 2015 11.56pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Mar 2015 11.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Mar 2015 11.47pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Mar 2015 11.41pm

Quote nickgusset at 12 Mar 2015 11.37pm

Quote legaleagle at 12 Mar 2015 11.36pm


Wow sure is one rapier sharp wit you possess


Don't feed the troll

Says the self righteous sort who pursues you for several weeks for an answer to a question on Green Education policy.

You are the troll Gusset. Plus an unintelligent one too boot.


Have you grasped ye difference between the trade and budget deficit or do you need another explanation?

Or do you want to again tell me I am a c*** for thinking that the increase in the trade deficit is driving people to food banks?&#128512;

That old chestnut. Change the record.
What has this got to do with UKIP?

You highlighted a spelling error that you used to insinuate I was stupid and hypocritical.

I turned that back by highlighting that you speak a lot about things you don't understand.

Your deflection tactics of 'what has this got to do with UKIP' are highlighted as hypocrisy as you will use any trick to try to highlight the chinks you perceive in your opponents armour and turn attention away from your intellectual shortcomings.

I think you are a bit dim and don't really get what you are talking about. That is my observation. Plus I beleive you are self centred and want what is best for you and your chums at the expense of others. You hide this behind a mask of socialism do goodism.

WANT ME TO CARRY ON?

The perils of midweek drinking.

To be fair, I highlighted the error to show that Matt is homophonic.

 

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TUX Flag redhill 13 Mar 15 7.16pm Send a Private Message to TUX Add TUX as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 13 Mar 2015 9.38am

[Link]


"On the same day that Farage’s comments surfaced, it emerged that a council-owned company in Carmarthenshire had recently advertised for “recycling operatives”, noting the ability to speak Polish would be an advantage.

The company defended itself by saying a shared language was helpful as they already had lots of Polish workers, who were good, reliable people. Presumably they were also willing to tolerate what the ad calls long periods of standing and being “targeted on your picking rates” in return for minimum wage, and to be available for work between 5am and 7pm, shifts that would be unlikely to suit families.

Are Poles getting these jobs and others like them, all over the country, because employers are too crippled by political correctness to choose Britons? Or because young, often childless, migrant workers are disproportionately able and willing to take tough, low-paid, jobs, at least until they’ve saved enough to go home to Poland and buy a house?

It is the left that’s usually accused of the politics of envy, of not knowing how to lift those at the bottom and thus relying on dragging down those at the top. But what is striking is how much the right now relies on fostering envy too, although in their case not of the rich but of those who never had much: foreigners in minimum wage jobs, benefit claimants, anyone who seems to have something you don’t.

If politicians have nothing much to give people – no instant solution for creating millions of jobs and equipping people to compete for them – then the next best thing is to take something from their rivals: to create the illusion of progress for some by holding others back."

First sentence, no.
Second sentence, that's the difference. The wage here compared to working in Poland (for example) CAN afford them to put their heads to the grindstone for a few years and see a result which is obviously a great incentive.
Unfortunately that doesn't apply to 99% of young British workers though working under the same conditions. They'll never buy a house, however humble, despite working just as hard as their Polish workmate.
A migrant coming here and progressing is not dissimilar to a Brit moving to Dubai for a few years in order to 'progress' financially.

I feel sorry for our youngsters tbh. Why have we done this to them?



 

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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 13 Mar 15 7.39pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote DanH at 13 Mar 2015 9.51am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 13 Mar 2015 9.46am

Can the Mods please lock this thread..... it is really boring now.

The main participants could just as easily exchange insults by PM


Hear hear.

Or leave this thread as the dedicated sniping thread so they don't ruin all the other ones.

 


...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Stirlingsays Flag 13 Mar 15 8.03pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Johnny Eagles at 13 Mar 2015 7.39pm

Quote DanH at 13 Mar 2015 9.51am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 13 Mar 2015 9.46am

Can the Mods please lock this thread..... it is really boring now.

The main participants could just as easily exchange insults by PM


Hear hear.

Or leave this thread as the dedicated sniping thread so they don't ruin all the other ones.


Oh listen to you lot of windswept interesting posters.....Never bored anyone with your tosh have yea?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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TheJudge Flag 15 Mar 15 6.35pm

Quote legaleagle at 12 Mar 2015 12.46am

Quote TheJudge at 11 Mar 2015 2.03pm

Quote ghosteagle at 11 Mar 2015 1.02pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Mar 2015 10.58am

Quote TheJudge at 10 Mar 2015 9.52pm

i See this thread is rolling on with the usual pro immigration propaganda.

There is a large towns worth of people coming here each year net and yet we have a massive housing shortage that the left bang on about. How is this good ?
We have Eastern European criminals hiding in Britain to avoid capture. How is this good ?

We have various religions and ideologies that have hated each other for hundreds of years now hating each other in Britain as well and preaching the politics of division. Then we have our own right wing idiots hating them all on top of that. How is this good ?

No, the only people who are happy are the business man and those who fly the flag of the rainbow nation despite the fact that the human race clearly has not evolved anything like enough to make it work.

So tell me why totally uncontrolled mass immigration is good for the average man in Britain again ? I can't remember.


Exactly.

The left keep pushing the economic argument and ignore or play down the effect on our infrastructure.

They will only call a halt to immigration when our water supply fails to cope with demand.... or will they?

Silly season already?

Presumably you still believe the spin.

Let me ask you how you think anyone can quantify financial benefit from immigration figures which are not measured properly ?

That would be a good trick.


Very few statistics,whether on immigration or anything else, are perfect but they can certainly be capable of indicating what the general situation is. Allowing for that,governments etc work on what they can for planning etc all the time.

As an example,statistics on Brits living in the EU. There's a lower statistic based on Brits being defined as people born here,and a higher one if Brits are defined as people holding British nationality.But,both stats aren't 100% due to those Brits living in the EU no stats pick up.Does that mean the statistics are not of some use as an indicator? Absolutely not.

It applies equally to statistics used to suggest a conclusion of overall pluses or minuses over immigration,so if you want to say the stats you criticise are useless because they are not 100% exact as indicators,it may well be that some of those that have helped shape your thinking are equally invalid (or valid) as a general indicator.

So,of course someone can quantify financial benefits based on statistics that may not be exactly perfect and it can usefully indicate the general nature of any financial benefits arising.If you are on a genuine quest to assess the statistical methodology used in the UCL study indicating significant financial benefits with an open mind,I think I posted a link to the report itself back on this thread somewhere or I can PM you one and you can examine their statistical and research methodology directly.If you think any input is too high or low, you can do a rough tweak to the outcome accordingly,and assess whether financial benefits remain generally positive.but be sure to adjust everything relevant not just a particular input or outcome that supports your point of view.

As for spin, it is hardly something confined to any one particular point of view. The same applies to "closed minds".

IMO our water supply is most likely to fail due to chronic under investment in new mains/pipes etc over the past 100 years plus,just like our sewage system in London.


Edited by legaleagle (12 Mar 2015 1.20am)

There is a wonderful irony in this post.

Since we are all told tha immigration is "good" for the country. What possible data can be used to confirm this when the data is totally inadequate ? Data is either reliable or it is not.
The ideat that financial is the defining factor to how "good" it is a deplorable idea anyway.

Has anyone stopped to consider just how much of our "bad" news these days is directly related to migrants or the offspring of migrants? It's the old adage that people always blame the foreigner but sometimes the truth is what it is and all the spin in the world can't change that.

And the last part of this post about the water system is typical of the pro immigration lobby.
Firstly. how can you invest or plan for something when you have no idea what capacity will be required ? Immigration numbers are increasing all the time.
And how is it possible for supposedly intelligent not to see that if more and more people want a slice of your cake, then you need a bigger cake. Britain's services, jobs and housing are creaking under the strain and I haven't even started on terrorism or crime.


Edited by TheJudge (15 Mar 2015 6.37pm)

Edited by TheJudge (15 Mar 2015 6.38pm)

 

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