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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 1.56pm | |
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It's a little more nuanced than that, but OK you get the drift!
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Matov 19 Sep 19 2.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I sincerely though hope that your anger doesn't allow you to believe that this entitles you to take direct action to achieve your aims. That's not how we do things here. If you want to change the country from a Parliamentary democracy to some kind of direct democracy in which important decisions are taken by mandatory plebiscite then you have to vote in a Parliament willing to make that change. That's your right. I was bought up to believe that voting mattered. That it was crucial to make the effort to go along to the polling station and cast my vote according to how I felt. That people had died in a variety of wars to ensure that I could do so. I have probably voted for the losing candidate/proposition more times than the winner and whilst not pleased, never once considered that the result should not stand. On June 23rd I walked up to my local polling station and cast my vote in absolute good faith that the result would be honoured. That was what I had been promised. No ifs, no buts and I believe that the VAST majority of others did similar. To have my vote the subsequently discarded be it by Parliament or through a farce of another referendum before the first one has been honoured destroys my faith in the voting process. And I am convinced that there are multiple millions of others like me. Are you seriously willing to inflict that damage on us? And no expect a back-lash that see's no point in playing by the rules again?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Sep 19 2.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I really don't think you have any idea what to debate actually means. I have several times identified falsehoods in the various claims you have made and offered you the chance to justify them, providing links to assist you. You ignore them all, and just respond with personal insult. That's not debate. It's not even amusing. You used the right word in your last comment. YES you ARE pathetic and I wonder what institution you escaped from and then went and hid down in Cornwall.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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serial thriller The Promised Land 19 Sep 19 2.35pm | |
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I think what the Labour top branch would like to say is that they see Brexit as a red herring. That if people are really interested in democracy, transparency and accountability, which are undoubtedly good things, simply leaving the EU will not get them what they want. But they have been weak in the face of a large minority who see the EU as the embodiment of 'European values, when in reality it is a trading bloc set up to benefit primarily French and German business with a weak legislature attached to it. Labour need to harness the anger people are feeling and direct it correctly at the real reason for our disenfranchisement.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 19 Sep 19 2.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We certainly have a pre-campaign underway. That there is a significant body of opinion who feel as you do is clearly true. You know I think you are wrong but that's life. We can agree about football at least. Parliament is not betraying anyone. It's trying to do it's job. Those that see betrayal in their action don't understand it's job. I sincerely though hope that your anger doesn't allow you to believe that this entitles you to take direct action to achieve your aims. That's not how we do things here. If you want to change the country from a Parliamentary democracy to some kind of direct democracy in which important decisions are taken by mandatory plebiscite then you have to vote in a Parliament willing to make that change. That's your right. So I hope it won't come to anything like that and we see some quiet reason being explained by our political leaders after a decision has been made which will enable everyone to unite around a solution that no-one will regard as perfect, but most can accept. Chances are they will ignore that vote, so for thatt reason Im out!! NEVER vote again, its not worth the effort!!
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 3.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
I was bought up to believe that voting mattered. That it was crucial to make the effort to go along to the polling station and cast my vote according to how I felt. That people had died in a variety of wars to ensure that I could do so. I have probably voted for the losing candidate/proposition more times than the winner and whilst not pleased, never once considered that the result should not stand. That is absolutely no different to the way I was brought up or what I now believe and argue for. So we are completely lined up. I believe that voting is a democratic duty and would probably go further than it just being a duty but an obligation which ought to be mandatory. Those remarks though apply only to GEs in which we elect our representatives. After that any vote we might be asked to cast becomes secondary to the powers we have transferred to them. That's the way it works. On June 23rd I walked up to my local polling station and cast my vote in absolute good faith that the result would be honoured. That was what I had been promised. No ifs, no buts and I believe that the VAST majority of others did similar. So did I. We voted in a referendum and NOT a GE. A referendum which the then government had said the result of which would be implemented. That government is NOT the Parliament. What has happened subsequently need not be repeated but has all been the logical and legal consequences of us living in a Parliamentary democracy. It is simply not the case that a vote in a GE is equal to a vote in a referendum. They are cast for entirely different purposes and have entirely different validity. To have my vote the subsequently discarded be it by Parliament or through a farce of another referendum before the first one has been honoured destroys my faith in the voting process. And I am convinced that there are multiple millions of others like me. It hasn't been discarded. It has been given exactly the same value as mine and every other one cast. It's just not the same value as that when we elect our representatives. Are you seriously willing to inflict that damage on us? And no expect a back-lash that see's no point in playing by the rules again? In Parliament's view, and they are the ones with the responsibility here, the damage would be caused by leaving without a deal. That some like you don't actually understand the rules isn't their fault but it doesn't change the facts. If a newcomer to football doesn't understand the offside rule what is the solution? This is really no different, except that you aren't a newcomer. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (19 Sep 2019 3.36pm)
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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 19 Sep 19 3.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
voting is now redundant, if the government can just ignore 17.4 million people, whats the point???
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 3.38pm | |
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Originally posted by the silurian
Chances are they will ignore that vote, so for thatt reason Im out!! NEVER vote again, its not worth the effort!! That's why we vote in representatives and not delegates. We need to find people we trust to make wise decisions on our behalf. Then leave the job to them.
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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 19 Sep 19 3.43pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's why we vote in representatives and not delegates. We need to find people we trust to make wise decisions on our behalf. Then leave the job to them. Good luck with finding any MP that you can trust amongst the criminals that inhabit the Commons these days...there isnt one MP I would trust anymore, all in it for themselves unless you can name some?? Edited by the silurian (19 Sep 2019 3.45pm)
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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 19 Sep 19 3.44pm | |
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. Edited by the silurian (19 Sep 2019 3.46pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 3.49pm | |
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Originally posted by susmik
YES you ARE pathetic and I wonder what institution you escaped from and then went and hid down in Cornwall. The remark my friend was directed at your responses. Your "answer" on Mrs Miller's funding was to repeat the statement I had politely and carefully shown was false. If you can show any actual evidence that she has received anything at all from Soros, or even from the independent foundations he funds, since she left the Best for Britain group (where she did not receive anything directly but only as a group member) then feel free to provide it. Your hole must be so deep by now your toes must be burning! Time to stop?
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Midlands Eagle 19 Sep 19 3.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's why we vote in representatives and not delegates. We need to find people we trust to make wise decisions on our behalf. Then leave the job to them. I wonder if you contravene the forum's rule 14 which includes "14.Do not use The Holmesdale Online's features in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other users (e.g. excessive shouting [use of all caps] or flooding [continuous posting of repetitive text or topics])." I wouldn't mind betting that you've spouted on about representatives and not delegates at least fifty times in this thread until most of us are heartily sick of hearing it.
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