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Mr Palaceman Flag 22 Jun 16 9.07pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by SloveniaDave

True, and they are much more likely to join well before Turkey (Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo and Bosnia). The main difference is that their total combined population is 17m. whereas Turkey has a population of 80m.

Bringing all of the above counties would not change the external borders of the EU at all - it would just fill the gap between Croatia, Greece and Bulgaria. Turkey would add well over 2000km to the external border of the EU.

So quite rightly it is the focus of attention compared to the others and a large part of the reason why their membership is a long, long way away.


The thing is, as things stand, Turkey have visa restrictions on entering the UK. Even if Turkey did join, That wouldn't change unless, we agreed to become part of Schengen.

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 9.20pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

As I've said immigration is not an issue.
Why should I vote leave Hrolf? I've already covered the fact we wont be able to renationalise anything if we stay. I know that the tories will be weaker giving labour a better chance to get in - I can't see Gove , Boris et al being able to form a government without a manifesto.

I know leaving would weaken the EU project, (which is a behemoth neoliberal institution that favours multinationals over small business), possibly causing it's demise leaving room for a better more socialist model.

What other reasons are there? Bear in mind I know that the eu have imposed 55/72 (depending on where you get the figure) do we know what these regulations/laws are?

Go on convince me. I'm still 50/50

still waiting hrolf. Convince me. My vote is there for the taking. Seriously


Edited by nickgusset (22 Jun 2016 9.23pm)

 

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turkish eagle Flag 22 Jun 16 9.23pm Send a Private Message to turkish eagle Add turkish eagle as a friend

[Link]

These describe the 35 chapters. To save you the trouble I will cut and paste number 24 entitled Justice, Freedom and Security.

EU policies aim to maintain and further develop the Union as an area of freedom, security and justice. On issues such as border control, visas, external migration, asylum, police cooperation, the fight against organised crime and against terrorism, cooperation in the field of drugs, customs cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal and civil matters, Member States need to be properly

equipped to adequately implement the growing framework of common rules. Above all, this requires a strong and well-integrated administrative capacity within the law enforcement agencies and other relevant bodies, which must attain the necessary standards. A professional, reliable and efficient police organisation is of paramount importance. The most detailed part of the EU’s policies on justice, freedom and security is the Schengen acquis, which entails the lifting of internal border controls in the EU. However, for the new Member States substantial parts of the Schengen acquis are implemented following a separate Council Decision to be taken after accession.

Now looking at that do you think Turkey can convince all 28 nations, including Cyprus and Greece, who have foreign policy issues with Turkey since 1974, that they have complied.

''Sadly, Turkey is looking more like an Islamic dictatorship these days.''

Where does that help Turkey fulfil the criteria? Will you now not 'get so hung up on Turkey' and realise, as Slovenia Dave has explained so well, that there is more chance of Turkey winning the Euro footie than of it gaining entry into EU for the foreseeable future. Considering it applied in 1957 what is the definition of 'fast tracked?'

 

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SloveniaDave Flag Tirana, Albania 22 Jun 16 9.25pm Send a Private Message to SloveniaDave Add SloveniaDave as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

True. Turkey has a large population and holds a key position geographically and militarily.

That is why Europe will want to bend over backward to make them Europeans.
Sadly, Turkey is looking more like an Islamic dictatorship these days.

That is true - European diplomacy with Turkey is designed to make them lean more towards Europe than to the East or to Russia. That is exactly why they were never refused membership, however unlikely it was or is.

Turkish membership of the EU is like the proverbial can being kicked down the street. Keeping the possibility of membership open is a part of that process.

Turkey is absolutely key to the geopolitics of the region, it is a power in its own right and it is courted by Russia, China and the middle-eastern states in almost equal measure.

Our approach of keeping the carrot firmly in play is entirely sensible.

 


Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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turkish eagle Flag 22 Jun 16 9.32pm Send a Private Message to turkish eagle Add turkish eagle as a friend

Chapter number 23 is a beaut.

[Link]

Entitled Judiciary and Fundamental Rights.
EU policies in the area of judiciary and fundamental rights aim to maintain and further develop the Union as an area of freedom, security and justice. The establishment of an independent and efficient judiciary is of paramount importance. Impartiality, integrity and a high standard of adjudication by the courts are essential for safeguarding the rule of law. This requires a firm commitment to eliminating external influences over the judiciary and to devoting adequate financial resources and training. Legal guarantees for fair trial procedures must be in place. Equally, Member States must fight corruption effectively, as it represents a threat to the stability of democratic institutions and the rule of law. A solid legal framework and reliable institutions are required to underpin a coherent policy of prevention and deterrence of corruption. Member States must ensure respect for fundamental rights and EU citizens’ rights, as guaranteed by the acquis and by the Fundamental Rights Charter.

Where does closing down a newspaper that was an opposition voice fit into this. That happened in the last 12 months. Oh yes, good times are coming to Turkey, the EU is begging her to join with their super standard human rights and respect for independent judiciary.


 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Jun 16 9.33pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

still waiting hrolf. Convince me. My vote is there for the taking. Seriously


Edited by nickgusset (22 Jun 2016 9.23pm)

I don't want to convince you.

You are voting remain and you will make a big song and dance about it when you do.

If you don't see the long term risks of staying in by now then you never will.

 

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turkish eagle Flag 22 Jun 16 9.33pm Send a Private Message to turkish eagle Add turkish eagle as a friend

Want to know the chapter that's been completed in the last ten years?

Science and research.

Yes, that political hot potato.

 

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leifandersonshair Flag Newport 22 Jun 16 9.34pm Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Originally posted by turkish eagle

Yeah ok. I'm 51. I will be getting my pension first.

Is it possible to be a 'little bit racist?'

[Link]

Yes, Yes it is.

[Link]

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 9.45pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I don't want to convince you.

You are voting remain and you will make a big song and dance about it when you do.

If you don't see the long term risks of staying in by now then you never will.

I don't know how I'm going to vote. How many flipping times?


What, other than the left wing arguments for leaving that I've mentioned, reasons are there to leave? Use facts if possible not conjecture.

And don't say take our country back.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Jun 16 9.48pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by turkish eagle

[Link]

These describe the 35 chapters. To save you the trouble I will cut and paste number 24 entitled Justice, Freedom and Security.

EU policies aim to maintain and further develop the Union as an area of freedom, security and justice. On issues such as border control, visas, external migration, asylum, police cooperation, the fight against organised crime and against terrorism, cooperation in the field of drugs, customs cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal and civil matters, Member States need to be properly

equipped to adequately implement the growing framework of common rules. Above all, this requires a strong and well-integrated administrative capacity within the law enforcement agencies and other relevant bodies, which must attain the necessary standards. A professional, reliable and efficient police organisation is of paramount importance. The most detailed part of the EU’s policies on justice, freedom and security is the Schengen acquis, which entails the lifting of internal border controls in the EU. However, for the new Member States substantial parts of the Schengen acquis are implemented following a separate Council Decision to be taken after accession.

Now looking at that do you think Turkey can convince all 28 nations, including Cyprus and Greece, who have foreign policy issues with Turkey since 1974, that they have complied.

''Sadly, Turkey is looking more like an Islamic dictatorship these days.''

Where does that help Turkey fulfil the criteria? Will you now not 'get so hung up on Turkey' and realise, as Slovenia Dave has explained so well, that there is more chance of Turkey winning the Euro footie than of it gaining entry into EU for the foreseeable future. Considering it applied in 1957 what is the definition of 'fast tracked?'

I can see you feel strongly about this.

In fairness I didn't mention Turkey originally. I just said a number of other countries could join.

I will not claim to know how long it will take Turkey to join the EU but whether they do or not within a few decades is by no means a deciding factor for me in voting leave.

I have more fundamental reasons.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 9.52pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I can see you feel strongly about this.

In fairness I didn't mention Turkey originally. I just said a number of other countries could join.

I will not claim to know how long it will take Turkey to join the EU but whether they do or not within a few decades is by no means a deciding factor for me in voting leave.

I have more fundamental reasons.

Which are? Use bullet points if you wish. Remember, facts not conjecture.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Jun 16 9.53pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

I don't know how I'm going to vote. How many flipping times?


What, other than the left wing arguments for leaving that I've mentioned, reasons are there to leave? Use facts if possible not conjecture.

And don't say take our country back.

I have never said that.

I would think that suppressed wages, housing shortages and inflated house prices, competition for jobs and the easier manipulation of an ever increasingly centralised Europe would be good reasons for you.

Not to mention the Nationalisation angle or workers rights.

Take your pick.

 

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