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Aston Villa vs Crystal Palace - Match Thread

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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Sep 23 12.44pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger I agree, but it's in a state now that it is becoming too damaging to the game. Remove it and correct it. If that's by creating new tech to help, or removing/re-educating the idiots that control it, whichever works. What's annoying is that other countries/organisations VAR has seen to have worked fairly well. I have good memories of VAR in the Word Cup. (maybe i've just blanked it out!) Many times it's been suggested that just because VAR have said the ref should review their decision, doesn't mean the ref should change their decision - In fact people were saying that there was too much pressure for the ref to accept the decision of the VAR team. Which is it - Go blindly with VAR or allow the Ref some level of control? No-one can agree.. and until we have a foolproof system, no-one will. To me, it's straightforward. You have one man on the field seeing each event once versus several people who are able to review a situation numerous times from various angles. It makes no sense to retain the referee decides model when you have this technology available. Obviously, the quality of decisions will depend to a degree on the quality of VAR officials, but inevitably, some decisions are highly subjective whereas others are clear cut. If you are taking five minutes to make a penalty decision, then it shouldn't be a penalty. If you are offside by a distance that a human cannot discern, then you aren't offside. The whole offside rule thing is just plain silly from the get go.
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Hrolf The Ganger

19 Sep 23 12.44pm

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Originally posted by CrazyBadger

I agree, but it's in a state now that it is becoming too damaging to the game. Remove it and correct it. If that's by creating new tech to help, or removing/re-educating the idiots that control it, whichever works.
What's annoying is that other countries/organisations VAR has seen to have worked fairly well. I have good memories of VAR in the Word Cup. (maybe i've just blanked it out!)

Many times it's been suggested that just because VAR have said the ref should review their decision, doesn't mean the ref should change their decision - In fact people were saying that there was too much pressure for the ref to accept the decision of the VAR team. Which is it - Go blindly with VAR or allow the Ref some level of control?
No-one can agree.. and until we have a foolproof system, no-one will.

To me, it's straightforward.

You have one man on the field seeing each event once versus several people who are able to review a situation numerous times from various angles.
It makes no sense to retain the referee decides model when you have this technology available.

Obviously, the quality of decisions will depend to a degree on the quality of VAR officials, but inevitably, some decisions are highly subjective whereas others are clear cut.

If you are taking five minutes to make a penalty decision, then it shouldn't be a penalty. If you are offside by a distance that a human cannot discern, then you aren't offside.

The whole offside rule thing is just plain silly from the get go.

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YT Oxford 19 Sep 23 12.54pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger To me, it's straightforward. You have one man on the field seeing each event once versus several people who are able to review a situation numerous times from various angles. It makes no sense to retain the referee decides model when you have this technology available. Obviously, the quality of decisions will depend to a degree on the quality of VAR officials, but inevitably, some decisions are highly subjective whereas others are clear cut. If you are taking five minutes to make a penalty decision, then it shouldn't be a penalty. If you are offside by a distance that a human cannot discern, then you aren't offside. The whole offside rule thing is just plain silly from the get go. Hrolf, you have posted a lot of sense there. I 100% agree with you. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 19 Sep 23 12.54pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

To me, it's straightforward.

Obviously, the quality of decisions will depend to a degree on the quality of VAR officials, but inevitably, some decisions are highly subjective whereas others are clear cut.

If you are taking five minutes to make a penalty decision, then it shouldn't be a penalty. If you are offside by a distance that a human cannot discern, then you aren't offside.

The whole offside rule thing is just plain silly from the get go.

Hrolf, you have posted a lot of sense there. I 100% agree with you.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Teddy Eagle 19 Sep 23 1.22pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger To me, it's straightforward. You have one man on the field seeing each event once versus several people who are able to review a situation numerous times from various angles. It makes no sense to retain the referee decides model when you have this technology available. Obviously, the quality of decisions will depend to a degree on the quality of VAR officials, but inevitably, some decisions are highly subjective whereas others are clear cut. If you are taking five minutes to make a penalty decision, then it shouldn't be a penalty. If you are offside by a distance that a human cannot discern, then you aren't offside. The whole offside rule thing is just plain silly from the get go. Deciding offsides on such small margins is madness - how can a size 12 boot be offside when a size 7 isn't? It's also notable that time wasting by payers is now a major issue when VAR can take so long out of the game. Matches going on for 105+ minutes mean the players literally standing around doing nothing for an extra 10 minutes which won't do much good when the weather gets colder.
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Teddy Eagle

19 Sep 23 1.22pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

To me, it's straightforward.

Obviously, the quality of decisions will depend to a degree on the quality of VAR officials, but inevitably, some decisions are highly subjective whereas others are clear cut.

If you are taking five minutes to make a penalty decision, then it shouldn't be a penalty. If you are offside by a distance that a human cannot discern, then you aren't offside.

The whole offside rule thing is just plain silly from the get go.

Deciding offsides on such small margins is madness - how can a size 12 boot be offside when a size 7 isn't?
It's also notable that time wasting by payers is now a major issue when VAR can take so long out of the game. Matches going on for 105+ minutes mean the players literally standing around doing nothing for an extra 10 minutes which won't do much good when the weather gets colder.

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 19 Sep 23 1.30pm
Originally posted by monkey Erm we’re not exactly in the same league as them financially. It might have escaped your notice but they’re a slightly bigger club than us in every way. I think their ambitions might be a little higher than us. Former league winners, European champions with a ground capacity of 43,000 and all that Edited by monkey (17 Sep 2023 5.31pm) Who is at fault for that The people that run the club Mr Parish. Correct history wise they are bigger based on successes (This was a long time ago) Ambition is what you choose it to be. Look at financial wise Palace has the cheek to charge more for season tickets 8th in the league and shirt sponsor Palace are almost bottom. Palace received merit payment and tv money on par with Villa. (Villa do not spend almost all of it on player wages) Commercial wise Palace are at a stand still and operate like amateurs this is the area they need to bring in better people (Not even having world wide distribution for shirts is unacceptable) (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 19 Sep 23 1.30pm

Originally posted by monkey

Erm we’re not exactly in the same league as them financially. It might have escaped your notice but they’re a slightly bigger club than us in every way. I think their ambitions might be a little higher than us. Former league winners, European champions with a ground capacity of 43,000 and all that

Edited by monkey (17 Sep 2023 5.31pm)

Who is at fault for that

The people that run the club Mr Parish.

Correct history wise they are bigger based on successes (This was a long time ago)

Ambition is what you choose it to be.

Look at financial wise Palace has the cheek to charge more for season tickets 8th in the league and shirt sponsor Palace are almost bottom.

Palace received merit payment and tv money on par with Villa. (Villa do not spend almost all of it on player wages)

Commercial wise Palace are at a stand still and operate like amateurs this is the area they need to bring in better people (Not even having world wide distribution for shirts is unacceptable)

(VPN) - [Link]
(Alt VPN) - [Link]

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CrazyBadger Ware 19 Sep 23 1.34pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Deciding offsides on such small margins is madness - how can a size 12 boot be offside when a size 7 isn't? It's also notable that time wasting by payers is now a major issue when VAR can take so long out of the game. Matches going on for 105+ minutes mean the players literally standing around doing nothing for an extra 10 minutes which won't do much good when the weather gets colder. the offside 'lines' should include an 'area of doubt', to allow for such things. also things like accuracy of when the ball actually left the boot of the passing player. This can be as little as 5cm to as much as 50cm past the defending line (some analysis required!). There should be an on-field decision (made after the fact, like it is now so not to stop 'offside when-it-wasn't' calls). So when VAR is checked and the attacker is within the 'area-of-doubt', the On field decision is taken. A bit like 'Umpires call' in cricket. Or get rid of Offside altogether. I love a goal-hanger "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 19 Sep 23 1.34pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

the offside 'lines' should include an 'area of doubt', to allow for such things. also things like accuracy of when the ball actually left the boot of the passing player. This can be as little as 5cm to as much as 50cm past the defending line (some analysis required!). There should be an on-field decision (made after the fact, like it is now so not to stop 'offside when-it-wasn't' calls). So when VAR is checked and the attacker is within the 'area-of-doubt', the On field decision is taken.
A bit like 'Umpires call' in cricket.
Or get rid of Offside altogether. I love a goal-hanger

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Badger11 Beckenham 19 Sep 23 1.38pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger the offside 'lines' should include an 'area of doubt', to allow for such things. also things like accuracy of when the ball actually left the boot of the passing player. This can be as little as 5cm to as much as 50cm past the defending line (some analysis required!). There should be an on-field decision (made after the fact, like it is now so not to stop 'offside when-it-wasn't' calls). So when VAR is checked and the attacker is within the 'area-of-doubt', the On field decision is taken. A bit like 'Umpires call' in cricket. Or get rid of Offside altogether. I love a goal-hanger All good points. personally I would prefer if the offside rule was specific to a certain part of the body in Athletics a photo finish is decided by the trunk. Wilf had a goal disallowed because his arm was offside although the rest of his body wasn't. The attacking players should be given the benefit of the doubt. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 19 Sep 23 1.38pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

All good points. personally I would prefer if the offside rule was specific to a certain part of the body in Athletics a photo finish is decided by the trunk.

Wilf had a goal disallowed because his arm was offside although the rest of his body wasn't.

The attacking players should be given the benefit of the doubt.

One more point

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Painter Croydon 19 Sep 23 1.52pm
Originally posted by PatrickA I wonder if the majority of fans would like to do away with VAR. The idea was to have objective assessment and take away doubt. To my mind many assessments continue to be subjective and doubts remain with contentious decisions every week. I believe it has also led to a poorer standard of refereeing, with their diminished authority and failure to make decisions. No VAR and the Diarby goal would have stood, offside not seen by the linesman. Decisions go both ways.
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Painter

Croydon 19 Sep 23 1.52pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

I wonder if the majority of fans would like to do away with VAR.
The idea was to have objective assessment and take away doubt.
To my mind many assessments continue to be subjective and doubts remain with contentious decisions every week.
I believe it has also led to a poorer standard of refereeing, with their diminished authority and failure to make decisions.

No VAR and the Diarby goal would have stood, offside not seen by the linesman. Decisions go both ways.

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Elpis In a pub 19 Sep 23 2.20pm
Originally posted by Painter No VAR and the Diarby goal would have stood, offside not seen by the linesman. Decisions go both ways. The protocol tells them NOT to flag offsides .
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Elpis

In a pub 19 Sep 23 2.20pm

Originally posted by Painter

No VAR and the Diarby goal would have stood, offside not seen by the linesman. Decisions go both ways.

The protocol tells them NOT to flag offsides .

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steeleye20 Croydon 19 Sep 23 2.33pm
I hadn't realised how boring football actually is until an extra 15 minutes plus has been added on. The first half is so long ago I have forgotten what happened. Do they do bed and breakfast I need a rest and a shower to face the world again. By which time I will have found out the VAR decision was completely wrong so the match wasn't decided on the pitch anyway, so why did I bother attending in the first place.
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steeleye20

Croydon 19 Sep 23 2.33pm

I hadn't realised how boring football actually is until an extra 15 minutes plus has been added on.

The first half is so long ago I have forgotten what happened.

Do they do bed and breakfast I need a rest and a shower to face the world again.

By which time I will have found out the VAR decision was completely wrong so the match wasn't decided on the pitch anyway, so why did I bother attending in the first place.

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YT Oxford 19 Sep 23 3.30pm
Originally posted by Elpis The protocol tells them NOT to flag offsides . EXCEPT when Benteke was clean through against Liverpool a couple of seasons back, when the flag went up quicker than a Jack-in-the-Box with the catch released and the referee instantly blew up (sadly not literally so). Of course, the TV pictures showed that (albeit miraculously so) Benteke had been easily onside. We all know he wouldn't have scored, but then we'll never know. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 19 Sep 23 3.30pm

Originally posted by Elpis

The protocol tells them NOT to flag offsides .

EXCEPT when Benteke was clean through against Liverpool a couple of seasons back, when the flag went up quicker than a Jack-in-the-Box with the catch released and the referee instantly blew up (sadly not literally so). Of course, the TV pictures showed that (albeit miraculously so) Benteke had been easily onside. We all know he wouldn't have scored, but then we'll never know.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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