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hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Apr 17 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. I certainly don't want the Tories in control that much is true. The impact of EU laws on the UK was massively blown out of all proportion by the Leave Campaign. I'm largely ambivalent about the points made about control over the law. The more important points for me are around the economy and basic rights enjoyed as EU citizens, both of which will suffer post Brexit. Who do you want in control?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 11.59am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Housing affects 100% of the population. Gay rights circa 5%. In this instance, equality is a minority pursuit.
And before anyone thinks it I'm in no way promoting communism! For anyone who's interested I'd recommend reading anything by Stiglitz or Paul Krugman. It's good to see that there is interest in politics and economics and lively discussion among the Palace faithful!
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 12.05pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Who do you want in control?
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hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Apr 17 12.14pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Good question. None of the current party leaders! Probably someone along the lines of Kier Starmer, Heidi Alexander or David Milliband. Macron has lead a great campaign in France and I like his policies so if there was a UK version of him I'd certainly vote for him. I've even got his name on my Palace shirt! They are reasonable people I think. But the only realistic choice at the moment is May, having Corbyn or Farron in charge would be like having Neil from the Young Ones.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Apr 17 12.14pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Just because someone isn't gay doesn't mean equality is irrelevant. That's such a myopic view, the like of which lead to poorer outcomes for society as a whole. More equal and cohesive societies are more productive and happier places for everyone not just those who would be worse off under a less equal system. And before anyone thinks it I'm in no way promoting communism! For anyone who's interested I'd recommend reading anything by Stiglitz or Paul Krugman. It's good to see that there is interest in politics and economics and lively discussion among the Palace faithful! _____________________________________________ Probably true, but it is what we mean by equality and cohesion that is problematic. If equality is taking money from people and giving it to those with less or blowing it on grandiose state schemes that mostly fail and are a waste of money, then that would created more problems than it solves - particularly with 'cohesion'. If cohesion means different ethnic and nationalities getting on famously together, then that ignores human nature - witness the Scottish and Welsh nationalist parties for a start. Edited by hedgehog50 (20 Apr 2017 12.22pm)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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leifandersonshair Newport 20 Apr 17 12.17pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
They are reasonable people I think. But the only realistic choice at the moment is May, having Corbyn or Farron in charge would be like having Neil from the Young Ones. As opposed to Theresa May, who is more like Vyvyan Basterd!
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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Apr 17 12.21pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
For anyone who's interested I'd recommend reading anything by Stiglitz or Paul Krugman. It's good to see that there is interest in politics and economics and lively discussion among the Palace faithful! Probably true and that is one of the reasons why I reject mass migration and rapid multi culturalism.
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serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Apr 17 12.36pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
_____________________________________________ Probably true, but it is what we mean by equality and cohesion that is problematic. If equality is taking money from people and giving it to those with less or blowing it on grandiose state schemes that mostly fail and are a waste of money, then that would created more problems than it solves - particularly with 'cohesion'. If cohesion means different ethnic and nationalities getting on famously together, then that ignores human nature - witness the Scottish and Welsh nationalist parties for a start. Edited by hedgehog50 (20 Apr 2017 12.22pm) Human nature? What, it's natural to hate people who are different to you? I think there's a very good example of how money influences the way we feel about other people. If you look at the most diverse part of the UK, it's probably the megarich in the city (you have Arabs, Nigerian princes, Russian oligarchs, Chinese billionaires etc etc), who seem to be able to put their differences aside to collectively screw over everyone else. It's areas with very little money where we see huge social divisions along these lines - Northern Ireland I think is a classic example. Fact is, if you have enough money to live a comfortable life, you have less reason to feel hatred to someone. That seems evident, and that's why reducing inequality is far more important than simply reducing migration to create cohesion.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 20 Apr 17 12.38pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
John Bercow
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Apr 17 12.45pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
But don't you consider him as - like Milliband - a version of the noblesse oblige who really have nothing to offer to society anymore? I mean, this is a man right from the heart of the French establishment - he went to their equivalent of Eton, before working for the Rothschilds, then in hedge funds. How are politicians like that meant to solve the vast social tensions which are coming to the surface around Europe? In my opinion, it's no surprise that his campaign seems to be fading away. According to mates in France, most people don't seem to be able to name a single concrete policy the guy has.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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npn Crowborough 20 Apr 17 12.52pm | |
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Genuinely no idea who to vote for. Tories, I'm afraid (and I have voted for them many times in the past), just seem to be getting nastier. Labour are leaderless and clueless. LibDems are lead by a 'liberal' who doesn't like the gays, and seem a little rudderless. UKIP are done. Greens I could be persuaded but will have to look at their policies in detail first. All slightly irrelevant as the Tories have a 23,000 majority in my seat and will be going nowhere, but I'd like to show willing.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Apr 17 12.53pm | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Human nature? What, it's natural to hate people who are different to you? I think there's a very good example of how money influences the way we feel about other people. If you look at the most diverse part of the UK, it's probably the megarich in the city (you have Arabs, Nigerian princes, Russian oligarchs, Chinese billionaires etc etc), who seem to be able to put their differences aside to collectively screw over everyone else. It's areas with very little money where we see huge social divisions along these lines - Northern Ireland I think is a classic example. Fact is, if you have enough money to live a comfortable life, you have less reason to feel hatred to someone. That seems evident, and that's why reducing inequality is far more important than simply reducing migration to create cohesion. You can't 'create cohesion'. People get along or they don't. At best different groups club together and more or less ignore others. The megarich are just as likely to marry and mix with their own nationalities as everyone else. There are exceptions of course, but we are talking about general behaviour. Why do you think there are 'Little Italy' and 'Little China' and Harlem and Irish districts in New York.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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