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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 matt_himself  Matataland 24 Feb 16 11.31am |
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Originally posted by dannyh
But didn't you go on and on about the land of the haggis becoming independant He did. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of job losses that endeavour would result in.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Hoof Hearted 24 Feb 16 11.32am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Well-known Trotskyite and commie Brendan O'Neill argues the case for leaving using, confusingly, 'Love democracy?' as his persuasive headline. Can't remember a time when the more extreme left got into bed with the more extreme right about anything since Adolf and Josef had a pre-war cuppa. This has just re-enforced my 'in'. Your "In" is cemented in stone just as my "Out" is. It doesn't need daily updates to reinforce it Kermy. This morning's news that Gove disagreed with Cameron's portrayal of the legal standing of his "hard fought" concessions (ie that EU Judges can overrule them) hasn't stiffened my resolve to vote out at all. I've been convinced for years that our membership was a bad thing and would have been even worse had we adopted the Euro. Gullible people are still swallowing the lies peddled in that campaign about us being "cut adrift from Europe" and being in the "financial slow lane" etc.... all turned out to be bollocks though. The "Fact" that is making me laugh this time is the notion that we are safer within Europe than Out? This is a ridiculous notion given that we cannot control our borders right now and have to admit millions of european citizens many of whom were previously middle eastern, but now possess an EU passport. The Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda etc are loving this opportunity to distribute their terrorists throughout Europe biding their time to get access to our shores.
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Kermit8  Hevon 24 Feb 16 11.36am |
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Originally posted by dannyh
We arethe strongest economy in the Eurozone, not because we are in it, but because we hold it all togther, if we go Germany and France will be left holding the baby, and we all know how well they get along. Lets just pack it in, and consign the whole Europen ideaoligical utopian fantasy to the history books, it was a good idea (on paper), which is where it should have stayed. I have heard a sneaky one that Prauge is serioulsy rethinking it's inclusion in the whole fiasco. if this vote went to the public today, we'd be out of Europe as soon as they could count the votes. Edited by dannyh (24 Feb 2016 11.23am) Second after The Hun. This is the abundant party we would be leaving early: "The economy of the European Union generates a GDP (nominal) of about €14.3 trillion (US$18.5 trillion in 2014) and a GDP (PPP) of about €12.7 trillion (US$16.8 trillion in 2014) according to the International Monetary Fund,[1] which makes it the largest or second largest economy in the world respectively if treated as the economy of a single country depending on the source used."
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| the_mcanuff_stuff Caterham 24 Feb 16 11.36am |
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Originally posted by dannyh
We arethe strongest economy in the Eurozone, not because we are in it, but because we hold it all togther, if we go Germany and France will be left holding the baby, and we all know how well they get along. Lets just pack it in, and consign the whole Europen ideaoligical utopian fantasy to the history books, it was a good idea (on paper), which is where it should have stayed. I have heard a sneaky one that Prauge is serioulsy rethinking it's inclusion in the whole fiasco. if this vote went to the public today, we'd be out of Europe as soon as they could count the votes. Edited by dannyh (24 Feb 2016 11.23am) Can't agree with you there. They might not be best buddies, but have an extremely close working relationship and by and large the (continuously negotiated) partnership and unity is what holds it all together and will continue to do so. Britain has always been a half-hearted member. If Britain leaves, the EU will remain and it will continue to be driven largely based on Franco-German agreements. In fact, going back to the very early history, it has largely been based on German-French cooperation. If you think a Brexit will cause the EU to collapse in on itself, well, I'll stick my neck out and say that's just not going to happen. It existed before Britain joined and it will continue to exist if Britain decides to leave. And Britain is not the strongest EU economy. It has the best growth currently. But the strongest economy is still Germany's and by some margin.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 24 Feb 16 12.07pm |
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Your opinion and your entitled to it. Mine on the other hand, is that it works (Europe) as we are a very large contributor to it, take that backing away, and you are left with a massive hole that one can not just fill by simply asking a pal to join. Think of it as a three legged stool very stable and depandable, how ever take away a leg and it all goes to rat sh1t. Make no mistake the UK is one of those legs. The shortfall or gap left by the UK will have to shared between Germany and France, as to my knoweledge the rest of the EU countries are, if not very nearly, then are very actually skint as assholes. Spain and Italy, are on the verge of falling apart, and most of the other smaller memebers like greece, have been massively bailed out and are refusing to pay interest and are consumed by regular riots and all manner of crap. The house of cards is already falling, taking the UK out will push it over the edge. IMO Edited by dannyh (24 Feb 2016 12.11pm)
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Lyons550 Shirley 24 Feb 16 12.15pm |
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Originally posted by the_mcanuff_stuff
I'm well aware of the current set up. What I want to know is, will we seek to remain as part of the EEA (for example) or completely do away with it. Like I said in my original post I want to know what Brexit will look like in practice, should we decide to leave. What is being proposed? Is the alternative better? If it is, we need to know what that looks like. And right now we don't because the "leave" campaign seems undecided. If they got in line and said "we will leave the EU and seek membership of the EEA", or even if not, at least it would be a clear indication what really is going to happen on "Brexit" Right now it is unclear and much too wishy-washy. I will predict right here and now, if there is no coherent plan put out by the "leave" campaign for the event of Brexit, it will fail. I'm 100% certain of that. People can not be expected to back something if they don't know what it entails. It is far too an important issue to vote on emotionally and say "let's leave and see what happens". That will never in a month of Sundays get the support that is required to win the referendum. I think that's a very naïve stance to take. I know of 3 people who've never voted that plan to use their vote this time round to leave the EU. The silent majority (those who rarely vote) are being woken by the scaremongering of the far right and are purely making their decision on the propaganda around immigration
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 Feb 16 12.16pm |
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A couple of years old, however how can we have a reasoned debate if people think we can go and work in Europe but don't think Europeans should be able to work here? I despair sometimes.
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Attachment: | Lyons550 Shirley 24 Feb 16 12.18pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
We arethe strongest economy in the Eurozone, not because we are in it, but because we hold it all togther, if we go Germany and France will be left holding the baby, and we all know how well they get along. Lets just pack it in, and consign the whole Europen ideaoligical utopian fantasy to the history books, it was a good idea (on paper), which is where it should have stayed. I have heard a sneaky one that Prauge is serioulsy rethinking it's inclusion in the whole fiasco. if this vote went to the public today, we'd be out of Europe as soon as they could count the votes. Edited by dannyh (24 Feb 2016 11.23am) As opposed to the Czech Republic?
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| Hoof Hearted 24 Feb 16 1.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
I think that's a very naïve stance to take. I know of 3 people who've never voted that plan to use their vote this time round to leave the EU. The silent majority (those who rarely vote) are being woken by the scaremongering of the far right and are purely making their decision on the propaganda around immigration Just like the far left who are scaremongering about the effects of our economy failing if we leave the EU, which is a load of bollocks and was disproven when we didn't adopt the Euro. The "far right" and moderates like myself are right to warn others about unfettered immigration and the effects on our infrastructure, as well as surrendering our sovereignty to Brussels. Just look at the proven liars and failed politicians lining up to support staying in... can you really trust the likes of Blair, Brown, Major, Straw et al? I've listened to both sides of the argument and trust Nigel Lawson on the economy - he knows more than you or I and you just have to look at what is happening to housing, schools, GPs, Hospitals etc to see we are being overrun with immigrants and are powerless to reduce or stop it whilst we remain in the EU. It's a no brainer to want out for us and the next generations.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 24 Feb 16 1.31pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Just like the far left who are scaremongering about the effects of our economy failing if we leave the EU, which is a load of bollocks and was disproven when we didn't adopt the Euro. The "far right" and moderates like myself are right to warn others about unfettered immigration and the effects on our infrastructure, as well as surrendering our sovereignty to Brussels. Just look at the proven liars and failed politicians lining up to support staying in... can you really trust the likes of Blair, Brown, Major, Straw et al? I've listened to both sides of the argument and trust Nigel Lawson on the economy - he knows more than you or I and you just have to look at what is happening to housing, schools, GPs, Hospitals etc to see we are being overrun with immigrants and are powerless to reduce or stop it whilst we remain in the EU. It's a no brainer to want out for us and the next generations. I think we should help transform the EU rule and have a yearly cap dependent on necessity and how many have left but the aforementioned problems you mentioned will be here to stay what with people getting older, junk food related illnesses, lack of investment in infrastructure and problems in education and housing (lack of building and rent controls) which aren't immigrant related. Brexit will not weave the magic you hope for but will make us economically poorer.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 24 Feb 16 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Just like the far left who are scaremongering about the effects of our economy failing if we leave the EU, which is a load of bollocks and was disproven when we didn't adopt the Euro. The "far right" and moderates like myself are right to warn others about unfettered immigration and the effects on our infrastructure, as well as surrendering our sovereignty to Brussels. Just look at the proven liars and failed politicians lining up to support staying in... can you really trust the likes of Blair, Brown, Major, Straw et al? I've listened to both sides of the argument and trust Nigel Lawson on the economy - he knows more than you or I and you just have to look at what is happening to housing, schools, GPs, Hospitals etc to see we are being overrun with immigrants and are powerless to reduce or stop it whilst we remain in the EU. It's a no brainer to want out for us and the next generations. HOOF FOR PM
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Hoof Hearted 24 Feb 16 1.44pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
I think we should help transform the EU rule and have a yearly cap dependent on necessity and how many have left but the aforementioned problems you mentioned will be here to stay what with people getting older, junk food related illnesses, lack of investment in infrastructure and problems in education and housing (lack of building and rent controls) which aren't immigrant related. Brexit will not weave the magic you hope for but will make us economically poorer. First of all "Brexit"... FFS that term is a pathetic journo tag! We will not be economically poorer - as I said in my post that threat is groundless as was proven when we didn't adopt the euro and kept the pound. People like Richard Branson were saying we would be in the slow lane of finance, jobs would go etc etc... all a load of baseless lies. Nigel Lawson v Branson etc.... I know where my trust lies.
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