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jamiemartin721  Reading 22 Apr 15 2.49pm |
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Yeah because its the migrants who are destroying the infrastructure, and its got nothing to do with 'stringent cuts'. Unsurprisingly, cutting 15-20% from a budget is going to have an impact on infrastructure.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 ghosteagle 22 Apr 15 3.12pm |
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Quote npn at 22 Apr 2015 1.12pm
Lefty studio audience members are always more vocal. No idea why, but if you watch/listen to any of the popular TV debate shows you'll see it - Question Time, Any Questions, etc. Some seem to believe that shouting down the opposition means you've won the argument. This may stem from the fact that people tend to move towards the right as they get older, so maybe the right wingers tend to be more mature? Not sure, but my point is that the fact that the audience were vocally anti-Farage needn't necessarily mean a bias in the crowd, just that the right wingers would be more likely to shake their heads, or perhaps raise an eyebrow, but largely stay politely quiet and respectful when something they disagree with, whereas the student union types will hoot and holler. Just personal perception, nothing I can back up with figures, but the left (or at least their supporters) do tend to be less conducive to good debate (take Nick Griffin on QT as an example - there for the taking, policies to be exposed and ridiculed, but just greeted with rent-a-mob booing and panellists turning their backs on him like sulking kids, and actually ended up looking good by comparison) Edited by npn (22 Apr 2015 1.13pm)
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| Hoof Hearted 22 Apr 15 5.30pm | |
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Quote OknotOK at 22 Apr 2015 12.18pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
You didn't need "spin" to observe that the overwhelming majority of the audience were anti UKIP and it was obvious that Dimbleby's denial of any audience rigging was not the case. It can only be interpreted one way. FFS! Yes, the majority of the audience was anti-UKIP. That doesn't mean it would have been left wing by the way as the majority of Tory voters *should* be anti-UKIP. But to suggest there was some undue BBC bias in selecting a "left wing" audience is factually incorrect. No spin. No interpretation. Just fact. That truly can only be interpreted one way. Anyway, like I said I will be interested to see the format for the QT "debate" when the panel will not be predominantly left wing (even by the weak definition that includes the Lib Dems as left wing).
I just observed that Farage was suspicious due to the amount of hostile jeering and over the top cheering of the other four candidates, Dimbleby denied it on the night, but it transpired that the independent polling company responsible for selection got it wrong and there was a left wing bias in the audience. I have no more to say as that is clear enough!
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| Hoof Hearted 22 Apr 15 5.47pm | |
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Quote ghosteagle at 22 Apr 2015 12.46pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 10.09am
Quote DanH at 22 Apr 2015 9.51am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
Quote imbored at 21 Apr 2015 5.19pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.50pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 4.35pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.18pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 11.35am
My numbers are per the Telegraph link I posted. It was also on the BBC. If you included the Lib Dems along with Labour, SNP, Greens, and Plaid then it would get to 102 as "left wing". This was of a total of 160 decided voters so would be 64% of decided voters. But there were an additional 20% (40 voters) who were undecided. And as the article clearly shows, the audience was no more biased to left wing than the ITV debates were - which no one complained about. And are selected by an independent party. Edited by OknotOK (21 Apr 2015 11.36am)
You appear to be putting your own interpretation on what the article shows. No I'm not. I'm stating facts as set out in the article Quote
An ITV spokesman said the audience for its seven-way debate reflected the same proportions. You have chosen to selectively highlight sections of my post to suggest I was putting my own interpretation. I quite clearly said the article shows the audience was no more biased than the ITV debates were. Given ITV said their audience was based on exactly the same proportions, that is simply facts. Given people weren't making a fuss about the ITV debates being left-wing, it suggests actually the fuss is people using their own bias against the BBC. As I indicated further up the audience did appear to be more left wing: Quote
so the questions and audience being primarily left wing (which does appear to have been the case)
All the other stuff you've said is irrelevant and akin to political speech designed to confuse and undermine the opposition. Farage was right.
It can only be interpreted one way. FFS!
My wife took an hour and a half to get home for a journey that should only take 10 minutes. My mate's child can't attend the primary school 200 yards from her house due to overcrowding. A neighbour had his operation cancelled again this month. But you caught a bus........ whoopy do..... everything is fine.
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Still, no need to let the truth get in the way of some baseless xenophobia eh? | nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Apr 15 6.05pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 5.47pm
Quote ghosteagle at 22 Apr 2015 12.46pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 10.09am
Quote DanH at 22 Apr 2015 9.51am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
Quote imbored at 21 Apr 2015 5.19pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.50pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 4.35pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.18pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 11.35am
My numbers are per the Telegraph link I posted. It was also on the BBC. If you included the Lib Dems along with Labour, SNP, Greens, and Plaid then it would get to 102 as "left wing". This was of a total of 160 decided voters so would be 64% of decided voters. But there were an additional 20% (40 voters) who were undecided. And as the article clearly shows, the audience was no more biased to left wing than the ITV debates were - which no one complained about. And are selected by an independent party. Edited by OknotOK (21 Apr 2015 11.36am)
You appear to be putting your own interpretation on what the article shows. No I'm not. I'm stating facts as set out in the article Quote
An ITV spokesman said the audience for its seven-way debate reflected the same proportions. You have chosen to selectively highlight sections of my post to suggest I was putting my own interpretation. I quite clearly said the article shows the audience was no more biased than the ITV debates were. Given ITV said their audience was based on exactly the same proportions, that is simply facts. Given people weren't making a fuss about the ITV debates being left-wing, it suggests actually the fuss is people using their own bias against the BBC. As I indicated further up the audience did appear to be more left wing: Quote
so the questions and audience being primarily left wing (which does appear to have been the case)
All the other stuff you've said is irrelevant and akin to political speech designed to confuse and undermine the opposition. Farage was right.
It can only be interpreted one way. FFS!
My wife took an hour and a half to get home for a journey that should only take 10 minutes. My mate's child can't attend the primary school 200 yards from her house due to overcrowding. A neighbour had his operation cancelled again this month. But you caught a bus........ whoopy do..... everything is fine.
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Apr 15 10.06am |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 5.30pm
Quote OknotOK at 22 Apr 2015 12.18pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
You didn't need "spin" to observe that the overwhelming majority of the audience were anti UKIP and it was obvious that Dimbleby's denial of any audience rigging was not the case. It can only be interpreted one way. FFS! Yes, the majority of the audience was anti-UKIP. That doesn't mean it would have been left wing by the way as the majority of Tory voters *should* be anti-UKIP. But to suggest there was some undue BBC bias in selecting a "left wing" audience is factually incorrect. No spin. No interpretation. Just fact. That truly can only be interpreted one way. Anyway, like I said I will be interested to see the format for the QT "debate" when the panel will not be predominantly left wing (even by the weak definition that includes the Lib Dems as left wing).
I just observed that Farage was suspicious due to the amount of hostile jeering and over the top cheering of the other four candidates, Dimbleby denied it on the night, but it transpired that the independent polling company responsible for selection got it wrong and there was a left wing bias in the audience. I have no more to say as that is clear enough! There you go again assuming I was actually talking about you. I haven't said you did. Others did though - Pussay Patrol for example. What you did do was infer that the audience was more left wing than in other debates. Which was not true when you look at the statistics and selections techniques used. The independent polling company did not get it wrong. It was a deliberate and intentional selection of the audience - exactly the same as it was for the ITV audience. Even then a left wing bias is a matter of opinion not fact. Unsurprisingly the Telegraph has used numbers that best suit the suggestion that it was biased. But as the numbers provided in its own article show, that is at best a very biased partial interpretation and at worst a blatant lie.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Apr 15 10.07am | |
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Quote nickgusset at 22 Apr 2015 6.05pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 5.47pm
Quote ghosteagle at 22 Apr 2015 12.46pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 10.09am
Quote DanH at 22 Apr 2015 9.51am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
Quote imbored at 21 Apr 2015 5.19pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.50pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 4.35pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.18pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 11.35am
My numbers are per the Telegraph link I posted. It was also on the BBC. If you included the Lib Dems along with Labour, SNP, Greens, and Plaid then it would get to 102 as "left wing". This was of a total of 160 decided voters so would be 64% of decided voters. But there were an additional 20% (40 voters) who were undecided. And as the article clearly shows, the audience was no more biased to left wing than the ITV debates were - which no one complained about. And are selected by an independent party. Edited by OknotOK (21 Apr 2015 11.36am)
You appear to be putting your own interpretation on what the article shows. No I'm not. I'm stating facts as set out in the article Quote
An ITV spokesman said the audience for its seven-way debate reflected the same proportions. You have chosen to selectively highlight sections of my post to suggest I was putting my own interpretation. I quite clearly said the article shows the audience was no more biased than the ITV debates were. Given ITV said their audience was based on exactly the same proportions, that is simply facts. Given people weren't making a fuss about the ITV debates being left-wing, it suggests actually the fuss is people using their own bias against the BBC. As I indicated further up the audience did appear to be more left wing: Quote
so the questions and audience being primarily left wing (which does appear to have been the case)
All the other stuff you've said is irrelevant and akin to political speech designed to confuse and undermine the opposition. Farage was right.
It can only be interpreted one way. FFS!
My wife took an hour and a half to get home for a journey that should only take 10 minutes. My mate's child can't attend the primary school 200 yards from her house due to overcrowding. A neighbour had his operation cancelled again this month. But you caught a bus........ whoopy do..... everything is fine.
If we stop inviting the whole of Europe to bring their kids here we would have enough schools! Where is all the land and finance going to come from for these extra schools? Net migration is running at 300,000 per year Nick... we can't keep up with enough houses for them, let alone schools for their children mate.
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| ghosteagle 23 Apr 15 2.01pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Apr 2015 10.07am
Quote nickgusset at 22 Apr 2015 6.05pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 5.47pm
Quote ghosteagle at 22 Apr 2015 12.46pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 10.09am
Quote DanH at 22 Apr 2015 9.51am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
Quote imbored at 21 Apr 2015 5.19pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.50pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 4.35pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 21 Apr 2015 4.18pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Apr 2015 11.35am
My numbers are per the Telegraph link I posted. It was also on the BBC. If you included the Lib Dems along with Labour, SNP, Greens, and Plaid then it would get to 102 as "left wing". This was of a total of 160 decided voters so would be 64% of decided voters. But there were an additional 20% (40 voters) who were undecided. And as the article clearly shows, the audience was no more biased to left wing than the ITV debates were - which no one complained about. And are selected by an independent party. Edited by OknotOK (21 Apr 2015 11.36am)
You appear to be putting your own interpretation on what the article shows. No I'm not. I'm stating facts as set out in the article Quote
An ITV spokesman said the audience for its seven-way debate reflected the same proportions. You have chosen to selectively highlight sections of my post to suggest I was putting my own interpretation. I quite clearly said the article shows the audience was no more biased than the ITV debates were. Given ITV said their audience was based on exactly the same proportions, that is simply facts. Given people weren't making a fuss about the ITV debates being left-wing, it suggests actually the fuss is people using their own bias against the BBC. As I indicated further up the audience did appear to be more left wing: Quote
so the questions and audience being primarily left wing (which does appear to have been the case)
All the other stuff you've said is irrelevant and akin to political speech designed to confuse and undermine the opposition. Farage was right.
It can only be interpreted one way. FFS!
My wife took an hour and a half to get home for a journey that should only take 10 minutes. My mate's child can't attend the primary school 200 yards from her house due to overcrowding. A neighbour had his operation cancelled again this month. But you caught a bus........ whoopy do..... everything is fine.
If we stop inviting the whole of Europe to bring their kids here we would have enough schools! Where is all the land and finance going to come from for these extra schools? Net migration is running at 300,000 per year Nick... we can't keep up with enough houses for them, let alone schools for their children mate.
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Apr 15 4.19pm | |
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Quote OknotOK at 23 Apr 2015 10.06am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 5.30pm
Quote OknotOK at 22 Apr 2015 12.18pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
You didn't need "spin" to observe that the overwhelming majority of the audience were anti UKIP and it was obvious that Dimbleby's denial of any audience rigging was not the case. It can only be interpreted one way. FFS! Yes, the majority of the audience was anti-UKIP. That doesn't mean it would have been left wing by the way as the majority of Tory voters *should* be anti-UKIP. But to suggest there was some undue BBC bias in selecting a "left wing" audience is factually incorrect. No spin. No interpretation. Just fact. That truly can only be interpreted one way. Anyway, like I said I will be interested to see the format for the QT "debate" when the panel will not be predominantly left wing (even by the weak definition that includes the Lib Dems as left wing).
I just observed that Farage was suspicious due to the amount of hostile jeering and over the top cheering of the other four candidates, Dimbleby denied it on the night, but it transpired that the independent polling company responsible for selection got it wrong and there was a left wing bias in the audience. I have no more to say as that is clear enough! There you go again assuming I was actually talking about you. I haven't said you did. Others did though - Pussay Patrol for example. What you did do was infer that the audience was more left wing than in other debates. Which was not true when you look at the statistics and selections techniques used. Even then a left wing bias is a matter of opinion not fact. Unsurprisingly the Telegraph has used numbers that best suit the suggestion that it was biased. But as the numbers provided in its own article show, that is at best a very biased partial interpretation and at worst a blatant lie.
I didn't compare it to other debates, or inferred a comparison. You made the comparison with ITV and keep banging on about it. My concern was the BBC debate which Farage took part in, and was unfairly heckled by a hostile audience which has now been acknowledged by and apologised for by the BBC. The Telegraph article and your convoluted interpretation of it is irrelevant. Don't keep misquoting me or suggesting ulterior motives for my stand on this matter.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Apr 15 4.20pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Apr 2015 4.19pm
Quote OknotOK at 23 Apr 2015 10.06am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 5.30pm
Quote OknotOK at 22 Apr 2015 12.18pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Apr 2015 9.41am
You didn't need "spin" to observe that the overwhelming majority of the audience were anti UKIP and it was obvious that Dimbleby's denial of any audience rigging was not the case. It can only be interpreted one way. FFS! Yes, the majority of the audience was anti-UKIP. That doesn't mean it would have been left wing by the way as the majority of Tory voters *should* be anti-UKIP. But to suggest there was some undue BBC bias in selecting a "left wing" audience is factually incorrect. No spin. No interpretation. Just fact. That truly can only be interpreted one way. Anyway, like I said I will be interested to see the format for the QT "debate" when the panel will not be predominantly left wing (even by the weak definition that includes the Lib Dems as left wing).
I just observed that Farage was suspicious due to the amount of hostile jeering and over the top cheering of the other four candidates, Dimbleby denied it on the night, but it transpired that the independent polling company responsible for selection got it wrong and there was a left wing bias in the audience. I have no more to say as that is clear enough! There you go again assuming I was actually talking about you. I haven't said you did. Others did though - Pussay Patrol for example. What you did do was infer that the audience was more left wing than in other debates. Which was not true when you look at the statistics and selections techniques used. Even then a left wing bias is a matter of opinion not fact. Unsurprisingly the Telegraph has used numbers that best suit the suggestion that it was biased. But as the numbers provided in its own article show, that is at best a very biased partial interpretation and at worst a blatant lie.
I didn't compare it to other debates, or inferred a comparison. You made the comparison with ITV and keep banging on about it. My concern was the BBC debate which Farage took part in, and was unfairly heckled by a hostile audience which has now been acknowledged by and apologised for by the BBC. The Telegraph article and your convoluted interpretation of it is irrelevant. Don't keep misquoting me or suggesting ulterior motives for my stand on this matter.
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Apr 15 4.29pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Apr 2015 4.19pm
No I didn't. I didn't compare it to other debates, or inferred a comparison. You made the comparison with ITV and keep banging on about it. My concern was the BBC debate which Farage took part in, and was unfairly heckled by a hostile audience which has now been acknowledged by and apologised for by the BBC. The Telegraph article and your convoluted interpretation of it is irrelevant. Don't keep misquoting me or suggesting ulterior motives for my stand on this matter. I think we should just move on. You say I misquoted you. You have misquoted me. It is just pointless. As I said, the BBC audience did appear to be more left wing than right wing. But it was not more left wing than other audiences. And the 67% figure you quoted is wrong. The BBC haven't apologised for the audience. They haven't had to.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Apr 15 4.45pm | |
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Quote OknotOK at 23 Apr 2015 4.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Apr 2015 4.19pm
No I didn't. I didn't compare it to other debates, or inferred a comparison. You made the comparison with ITV and keep banging on about it. My concern was the BBC debate which Farage took part in, and was unfairly heckled by a hostile audience which has now been acknowledged by and apologised for by the BBC. The Telegraph article and your convoluted interpretation of it is irrelevant. Don't keep misquoting me or suggesting ulterior motives for my stand on this matter. I think we should just move on. You say I misquoted you. You have misquoted me. It is just pointless. As I said, the BBC audience did appear to be more left wing than right wing. But it was not more left wing than other audiences. And the 67% figure you quoted is wrong. The BBC haven't apologised for the audience. They haven't had to.
Some people.. no stamina!
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