During the war (ww2) I heard lots of anti Churchill remarks..the standard comment being every time Churchill opens his mouth we get bombed.

He was a flawed individual but the right man for the job at that time.

Good to see Donald J Trump has reinstated his bust into the Oval Office after Obama had it removed during his tenancy.

You have to be concerned when the words Trump, Bust and Oval Office are in the same sentence.

War time politics is an odd, no one really wants to be reminded of the war after its all over. The UK has typically seen big shifts towards left and liberal ideas following major wars, and a ground swell of optimism and social change.

Which traditionally aren't conservative or right wing in their appeal.

Had quite an intense with a mate of mine today about one of the great celebrated figures of this nation's political history.

I think I may have brought this up on here before but I've always held the view that Churchill is viewed as a great leader because he won. Had he lost, I believe a lot of questionable stuff the British did would have come out, but instead it's wiped under the carpet and we continue to moan about those nasty Germans with their concentration camps (an idea they knicked off us) and anti-Semitism (which was thriving in Britain in the 30s).

The clearest example of this for me is the Bengal Famine. Churchill, fearful that the Japs might invade northern India, decided rather than evacuate the natives, he would just stop sending them food and shelter (in the middle of a famine) leading to millions of deaths, some claim on a similar scale as the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. When asked about this, Churchill blamed them for 'breeding like rabbits'.

He also supported a Bill to sterilise the mentally disabled (I'm not making this up! [Link] a form of, err, eugenics.

So let's look at the evidence: a mass-murderer, who supported racial purification, but won a lot of people over because he was a good public speaker and adopted the role as figurehead of a nation.

Now who does that remind me of...

Anyone willing to defend him?

Edited by serial thriller (22 May 2013 8.18pm)

1. What podcast is that then? Do you have a link?

Why use the praised Stalin line? If you had any idea how factionalised the left is you'd know it's a trite comment that is indicitive of a lack of thiought or imagination. Do you realise how many of the left don't give a monkeys about Trotskyism, stalinism, marxism etc, they just want to see a society that gives everyone a chance and makes sure everyone is looked after. Not exactly revolutionary is it?
2. If you'd rather speak German? Did you really mean to type that? Are you really saying you think that there are people in the UK who wished we weren't victorious in the war? We have seen fascistic tendencies all across europe and arguably in the USA. We fought against facism. In fact I find it odd that certain organisations on the right use the hero soldier angle and poppy quite often. Ironic given that they symbolise remembering and saluting the heroes that helped defeat fascism.

Back to Churchill. Again no argument from me about his importance and role in defeating Germany, but nobody is perfect. It's right that his role in the Indian famine and seeming racism is not swept under the carpet.

Edited by nickgusset (30 Jan 2017 11.36pm)