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Stirlingsays 12 Sep 19 4.21pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow You are entirely missing the point, because my point has nothing to do with the morality of financial markets, and you keep harping on about it; if random individuals or companies had taken this position, it wouldn’t be a story. Simply, people who influence outcomes should not be able to profit from them, as it creates a very clear conflict of interest. Again, I'm not 'missing the point' I'm contesting your ideology. The fact that you can't see that is you missing my argument. I've answered all your points here. I reject your contention. Whichever way 'Brexit' goes, people will make and lose money....that's half the reason different organizations funded different groups....your 'conflict of interest' is almost innocent in how the world works. Once again, if we don't leave, remainers will have made money.....Once that referendum result happened in 2016 these aspects were set. Your issue is that you can only see one side of that. And once again, 'no deal' has never been Johnson's preferred option and the people who have made 'no deal' most likely are activist remainers and MPs...again who are fiscally backed......People who are no different to those you criticise so that Cummings....who has contempt for all politicians, decided that 'scorched earth' leading to 'no deal' was the only option that would honour the referendum result......He's probably right. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Sep 2019 4.24pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Sep 19 4.21pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You are entirely missing the point, because my point has nothing to do with the morality of financial markets, and you keep harping on about it; if random individuals or companies had taken this position, it wouldn’t be a story.

Simply, people who influence outcomes should not be able to profit from them, as it creates a very clear conflict of interest.

Again, I'm not 'missing the point' I'm contesting your ideology. The fact that you can't see that is you missing my argument.

I've answered all your points here. I reject your contention. Whichever way 'Brexit' goes, people will make and lose money....that's half the reason different organizations funded different groups....your 'conflict of interest' is almost innocent in how the world works.

Once again, if we don't leave, remainers will have made money.....Once that referendum result happened in 2016 these aspects were set.

Your issue is that you can only see one side of that.

And once again, 'no deal' has never been Johnson's preferred option and the people who have made 'no deal' most likely are activist remainers and MPs...again who are fiscally backed......People who are no different to those you criticise so that Cummings....who has contempt for all politicians, decided that 'scorched earth' leading to 'no deal' was the only option that would honour the referendum result......He's probably right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Sep 2019 4.24pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 4.43pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Firstly, I'm not a socialist. Secondly, wage slaves are the reality of globalisation, which in my view is an inevitability and feel free to fight against it but you'll lose. Ergo the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new, and will continue to be the standard until automation takes over. You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy Re. the horses – I agree, but facts are facts. Not everyone in the EU has employment issues. Quite the opposite. So don't pass it off as though every country is affected. If the point had been worded differently the reply would not have been necessary – eg unemployment is high in the eastern bloc countries which is causing problems in more affluent western ones etc. etc. Worry not, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have promised that ALL people of working age WILL have jobs under a Labour government, and if there are no jobs, Corbyn will make some up so EVERYONE will have to work, even the lazy b******s who have NEVER worked......Corbyn and McDonnell however have yet to announce how this will be funded....'The Magic Money tree, perhaps??
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 4.43pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Firstly, I'm not a socialist. Secondly, wage slaves are the reality of globalisation, which in my view is an inevitability and feel free to fight against it but you'll lose. Ergo the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new, and will continue to be the standard until automation takes over.

You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy

Re. the horses – I agree, but facts are facts. Not everyone in the EU has employment issues. Quite the opposite. So don't pass it off as though every country is affected. If the point had been worded differently the reply would not have been necessary – eg unemployment is high in the eastern bloc countries which is causing problems in more affluent western ones etc. etc.

Worry not, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have promised that ALL people of working age WILL have jobs under a Labour government, and if there are no jobs, Corbyn will make some up so EVERYONE will have to work, even the lazy b******s who have NEVER worked......Corbyn and McDonnell however have yet to announce how this will be funded....'The Magic Money tree, perhaps??

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 12 Sep 19 5.07pm
Originally posted by the silurian Worry not, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have promised that ALL people of working age WILL have jobs under a Labour government, and if there are no jobs, Corbyn will make some up so EVERYONE will have to work, even the lazy b******s who have NEVER worked......Corbyn and McDonnell however have yet to announce how this will be funded....'The Magic Money tree, perhaps?? Is that a direct quote? Sounds like hyperbolic nonsense to me. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 12 Sep 19 5.07pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Is that a direct quote? Sounds like hyperbolic nonsense to me.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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becky over the moon 12 Sep 19 6.04pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy. Probably considerably less than would be saved on the social & welfare payments and NHS costs alone. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 12 Sep 19 6.04pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy.

Probably considerably less than would be saved on the social & welfare payments and NHS costs alone.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 6.19pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Is that a direct quote? Sounds like hyperbolic nonsense to me. direct from mcdonnell
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 6.19pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Is that a direct quote? Sounds like hyperbolic nonsense to me.

direct from mcdonnell

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Sep 19 6.47pm
Originally posted by the silurian Osborne said the jobs would go the day after the vote, NOT when Brexit happened....HE LIED whether you like it or not HE LIED!! and yes I do believe the MPs are all in it for themselves, no other reason, except for one MP! Edited by the silurian (12 Sep 2019 3.46pm) What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it. Forecasts can be wrong, because they are just forecasts. This forecast has been mitigated by the uncertainty that has surrounded the actual outcome with so many still uncertain of what will actually happen. The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that. So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong. Read this report at the time:- [Link] For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 12 Sep 19 6.47pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Osborne said the jobs would go the day after the vote, NOT when Brexit happened....HE LIED whether you like it or not HE LIED!!

and yes I do believe the MPs are all in it for themselves, no other reason, except for one MP!

Edited by the silurian (12 Sep 2019 3.46pm)

What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it.

Forecasts can be wrong, because they are just forecasts. This forecast has been mitigated by the uncertainty that has surrounded the actual outcome with so many still uncertain of what will actually happen.

The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that.

So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong.

Read this report at the time:-

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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jeeagles 12 Sep 19 6.47pm
Originally posted by the silurian Worry not, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have promised that ALL people of working age WILL have jobs under a Labour government, and if there are no jobs, Corbyn will make some up so EVERYONE will have to work, even the lazy b******s who have NEVER worked......Corbyn and McDonnell however have yet to announce how this will be funded....'The Magic Money tree, perhaps?? Fits right in with the Governer of the Bank of England's repeated calls to improve productivity but inefficiently employing a load of lazy gits who blame all their problems on others. They will solve the problem of over entitlement on the youth. Also - related to other posts - can we get this factually correct. BJ is not advocating we leave the EU without a deal. He is saying that we need to keep it on the table to give ourselves the best platform to negotiate from. The Labour party have continuously shown they are politically naive and dont seem to grasp this.
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jeeagles

12 Sep 19 6.47pm

Originally posted by the silurian
Worry not, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have promised that ALL people of working age WILL have jobs under a Labour government, and if there are no jobs, Corbyn will make some up so EVERYONE will have to work, even the lazy b******s who have NEVER worked......Corbyn and McDonnell however have yet to announce how this will be funded....'The Magic Money tree, perhaps??

Fits right in with the Governer of the Bank of England's repeated calls to improve productivity but inefficiently employing a load of lazy gits who blame all their problems on others. They will solve the problem of over entitlement on the youth.

Also - related to other posts - can we get this factually correct. BJ is not advocating we leave the EU without a deal. He is saying that we need to keep it on the table to give ourselves the best platform to negotiate from. The Labour party have continuously shown they are politically naive and dont seem to grasp this.

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jeeagles 12 Sep 19 6.51pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it. Forecasts can be wrong, because they are just forecasts. This forecast has been mitigated by the uncertainty that has surrounded the actual outcome with so many still uncertain of what will actually happen. The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that. So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong. Read this report at the time:- [Link] He and David Cameron lost their jobs so Osborne wasnt lying. Corbyn campaign for remain and lost too, so no longer has a mandate and should have stepped down. Labour would be in a much better position had he done so..... it's like the Union are sticking up for an incompetent buffoon just because he's one of their members... typical unions.
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jeeagles

12 Sep 19 6.51pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it.

The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that.

So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong.

Read this report at the time:-

[Link]

He and David Cameron lost their jobs so Osborne wasnt lying. Corbyn campaign for remain and lost too, so no longer has a mandate and should have stepped down. Labour would be in a much better position had he done so..... it's like the Union are sticking up for an incompetent buffoon just because he's one of their members... typical unions.

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 12 Sep 19 7.02pm
Originally posted by the silurian direct from mcdonnell Link me the direct quote Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 12 Sep 19 7.02pm

Originally posted by the silurian

direct from mcdonnell

Link me the direct quote

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 7.03pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it. Forecasts can be wrong, because they are just forecasts. This forecast has been mitigated by the uncertainty that has surrounded the actual outcome with so many still uncertain of what will actually happen. The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that. So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong. Read this report at the time:- [Link] Ok you believe he didnt lie, he forcasted badly......I and many others think he lied Osborne and Cameron didnt 'lose their jobs',they both ran away like the cowards they are when it didnt go their way. Have 600,000 people lost their jobs as a result of the referendum result, as I just saw on TV that employment is at a record high?
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 7.03pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it.

The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that.

So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong.

Read this report at the time:-

[Link]

Ok you believe he didnt lie, he forcasted badly......I and many others think he lied
Osborne and Cameron didnt 'lose their jobs',they both ran away like the cowards they are when it didnt go their way.
Have 600,000 people lost their jobs as a result of the referendum result, as I just saw on TV that employment is at a record high?

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 7.04pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Link me the direct quote Nah cant be arsed, you go look it up like I did
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 19 7.04pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Link me the direct quote

Nah cant be arsed, you go look it up like I did

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jeeagles 12 Sep 19 7.39pm
Originally posted by the silurian Ok you believe he didnt lie, he forcasted badly......I and many others think he lied Osborne and Cameron didnt 'lose their jobs',they both ran away like the cowards they are when it didnt go their way. Have 600,000 people lost their jobs as a result of the referendum result, as I just saw on TV that employment is at a record high? You can’t campaign for one thing, lose, and still have a mandate to govern. They did the right thing. The only reason they didn’t state the would stand down if they lost the referendum before hand was because they didn’t want to turn it into a protest vote against the PM... although in loads of cases, that’s what happened anyway Unemployment is at a record low.
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jeeagles

12 Sep 19 7.39pm

Originally posted by the silurian

You can’t campaign for one thing, lose, and still have a mandate to govern. They did the right thing. The only reason they didn’t state the would stand down if they lost the referendum before hand was because they didn’t want to turn it into a protest vote against the PM... although in loads of cases, that’s what happened anyway

Unemployment is at a record low.

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