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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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  Hrolf The Ganger  12 Sep 19 12.21pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The truth about brexit is that thee are no benefits whatsoever. Johnson, who was originally against brexit, saw his route to power and unlimited wealth. What an opportunity, and he and his backers will become filthy rich. Brexiteers are real suckers. Democracy? We won't bother with that.
How would you know that? You talk deluded t***tery at the best of times, so the opposite of what you say aways stands a good chance of being true.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Sep 19 12.23pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Can you please tell us how Boris’s backers are going to become filthy rich after Brexit.
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 12 Sep 19 12.54pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Can you please tell us how Boris’s backers are going to become filthy rich after Brexit. If you're asking that then you really are pretty naive Although TBF they'd most likely be getting just as rich if we were to remain.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| W12 12 Sep 19 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The truth about brexit is that thee are no benefits whatsoever. Johnson, who was originally against brexit, saw his route to power and unlimited wealth. What an opportunity, and he and his backers will become filthy rich. Brexiteers are real suckers. Democracy? We won't bother with that.
Anyone can prep-end a sentence with "The truth about...." and claim anything. Politicians in particular seem to do this a lot. Personally I'm against what the US call "rent seekers" i.e. people that make money whilst providing no value especially in financial markets, it needs to stop. I would like to regulation that prevents this and you will find many if not most right wing people will agree with you on that. The mainstream media also fall into that category as they have given up on journalism and decided to specialize in political punditry. All this is doing is adding to the polarization coming from social media. That doesn't take away from the fact that leaving the EU allows us to make our own laws, vote for our leaders (and vote them out) and take control of our own resources and borders. At the moment if we fish out an immigrant from the channel they belong to the UK, if we fish out a cod it generally belongs to the EU.
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| Matov 12 Sep 19 12.59pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We won the Referendum and no one has screwed up this process except Remainers. Thwarted is more my take. And for what end? Brexit is not about money. The biggest mistake that both sides made before the election. It is all about identity and essentially boils down, with notable exceptions of both side, about the contradictions posed to the entire world about globalisation. This is all about the wording on passports. European citizenship and what that entails. Britain is perhaps the most flexible economy in the current European Union. One of the prime reasons why the Germans do not want us to leave is because we help them maintain a modicum of commercial sense when it comes to how the EU legislates. We leave with No Deal and we can adapt. Merkel was only yesterday warning of the dangers of a UK setting up as a European 'Singapore'. She knows that the UK is more than capable of making a huge financial success of No Deal with Europe the big loser. Hence why they want to effectively keep us captive. They need our markets and more importantly, need us tied into their wider project. Prior to the referendum Project Fear should have breezed it for Remain. All political logic up until that moment had focused on the maxim 'its the economy stupid'. But it did not. And not only did it fail but it was proved almost entirely hysteria. And that is what is driving the issues now. Both Remainers and Leavers are driven by identity. About how they see themselves. About how they envisage the future. That is why this is all so damaging. If it was simply down to pounds, shillings and pence then we would not be at each others throats. Hence why all the insults, especially from the Remain camp. Look at the disdain, the contempt. All from the Culture Wars handbooks. All the buzz words. Brexit is about the future of the UK and by default, by globalisation. Of how it is defined. Always makes me smile when we see the term 'populist' bandied about like an insult. When did 'popular', especially in terms of how democracy works, become a bad thing? Remain is primarily driven by nothing more than an excessive sense of self-worth. Snobbery really.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 12 Sep 19 1.08pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
How would you know that? You talk deluded t***tery at the best of times, so the opposite of what you say aways stands a good chance of being true. I have to agree here, but in slightly less aggressive terms There's no way you can make the claim that leaving the EU would provide no benefits. It's simply untrue, and impossible to verify. Less benefits and more problems in the short term than remaining? Check.
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| W12 12 Sep 19 1.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
Thwarted is more my take. And for what end? Brexit is not about money. The biggest mistake that both sides made before the election. It is all about identity and essentially boils down, with notable exceptions of both side, about the contradictions posed to the entire world about globalisation. This is all about the wording on passports. European citizenship and what that entails. Britain is perhaps the most flexible economy in the current European Union. One of the prime reasons why the Germans do not want us to leave is because we help them maintain a modicum of commercial sense when it comes to how the EU legislates. We leave with No Deal and we can adapt. Merkel was only yesterday warning of the dangers of a UK setting up as a European 'Singapore'. She knows that the UK is more than capable of making a huge financial success of No Deal with Europe the big loser. Hence why they want to effectively keep us captive. They need our markets and more importantly, need us tied into their wider project. Prior to the referendum Project Fear should have breezed it for Remain. All political logic up until that moment had focused on the maxim 'its the economy stupid'. But it did not. And not only did it fail but it was proved almost entirely hysteria. And that is what is driving the issues now. Both Remainers and Leavers are driven by identity. About how they see themselves. About how they envisage the future. That is why this is all so damaging. If it was simply down to pounds, shillings and pence then we would not be at each others throats. Hence why all the insults, especially from the Remain camp. Look at the disdain, the contempt. All from the Culture Wars handbooks. All the buzz words. Brexit is about the future of the UK and by default, by globalisation. Of how it is defined. Always makes me smile when we see the term 'populist' bandied about like an insult. When did 'popular', especially in terms of how democracy works, become a bad thing? Remain is primarily driven by nothing more than an excessive sense of self-worth. Snobbery really.
Great post, i would add that I think remainers are really struggling with the possibility hey might be wrong and therefore don't even want this tested. It would completely destroy their technocratic worldview. In my experience throughout this whole wretched process, one of my main takeaways is that Brexiteers are on the whole very, very well informed (as they have had to be in the face of all the anti Brexit propaganda) and many remain "experts" and talking heads are either surprisingly ignorant or completely ideologically led.
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| Matov 12 Sep 19 1.20pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I have to agree here, but in slightly less aggressive terms There's no way you can make the claim that leaving the EU would provide no benefits. It's simply untrue, and impossible to verify. Less benefits and more problems in the short term than remaining? Check. The primary benefit is simply not being in the EU. Period. It is a failing organisation. The Euro is an absolute disaster that has bought more misery and destitution to the Continent than anything else ever inflicted on it during peacetime. Huge debts, massive unemployment (especially amongst the young) and generally an organisation that offers the last refuge for a political class increasingly out of touch with the realities of the modern world especially in light of increasing globalisation. Oddly enough I think that a truly federal EU might actually offer something. That there is a case to be made for it but I want it out in the open. In plain sight. As it is though, all it is at the moment is this soft-focus virtue signalling comfort blanket for soc.libs. I know that clip from QT where the Remainer asks where the people in Pret who make her coffee will come from is a little overdone now but ultimately that is what concerns Remainers. They like having their gardens tended to by Romanians, whilst Poles make their coffee and Albanians, who they are more than happy to turn a blind eye to even being in the country, wash their cars. Makes them feel special. Far more grateful than their own fellow countrymen who are unpleasant and crass. Our class struggle, writ large with a 21st century spin. That is Brexit now. And always was. Edited by Matov (12 Sep 2019 1.23pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Sep 19 1.21pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Great post, i would add that I think remainers are really struggling with the possibility hey might be wrong and therefore don't even want this tested. It would completely destroy their technocratic worldview. In my experience throughout this whole wretched process, one of my main takeaways is that Brexiteers are on the whole very, very well informed (as they have had to be in the face of all the anti Brexit propaganda) and many remain "experts" and talking heads are either surprisingly ignorant or completely ideologically led. I agree with most of your post, particularly the first paragraph, although I don’t think most remainers are even at the point of consciously questioning whether they might be wrong, such is their conviction in their ideology. However, I can’t take the bit in bold seriously - I’d agree at the ‘top end’ of the leave camp you have some fantastically well-informed people who argue against the mainstream position (remain) fantastically well, and there is even evidence of that on this thread. But I can’t agree that Brexiteers on the whole, nor indeed the population as a whole, can be described as ‘very very well informed.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Sep 19 1.22pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
If you're asking that then you really are pretty naive Although TBF they'd most likely be getting just as rich if we were to remain. 2. Which is why I asked. Or it’s a status quo of the same groups that benefit and get rich from EU membership and EU migration. 1. I’m well aware of markets and shorting. They’d make just as much or potentially more if the whole thing was called off. The uncertainty also provides volatility and short term opportunity. There is also the history of buy or sell the rumour and do the opposite on the fact. If ever you needed evidence of this then go to leading up to the Iraq invasion and the invasion itself. I’ve run the risk of contradicting myself on market action there but that’s the nature of market behaviour. Different timeframes and therefore opinions, which is where we are on here on Brexit. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Sep 2019 1.30pm)
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| W12 12 Sep 19 1.27pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
By the way, thanks for linking to an unbiased website that includes contributions from the likes of Mike Stuchbery. I'm sure it's all 100% reliable with no lies at all.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Sep 19 1.29pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Thwarted is more my take. And for what end? Brexit is not about money. The biggest mistake that both sides made before the election. It is all about identity and essentially boils down, with notable exceptions of both side, about the contradictions posed to the entire world about globalisation. This is all about the wording on passports. European citizenship and what that entails. Britain is perhaps the most flexible economy in the current European Union. One of the prime reasons why the Germans do not want us to leave is because we help them maintain a modicum of commercial sense when it comes to how the EU legislates. We leave with No Deal and we can adapt. Merkel was only yesterday warning of the dangers of a UK setting up as a European 'Singapore'. She knows that the UK is more than capable of making a huge financial success of No Deal with Europe the big loser. Hence why they want to effectively keep us captive. They need our markets and more importantly, need us tied into their wider project. Prior to the referendum Project Fear should have breezed it for Remain. All political logic up until that moment had focused on the maxim 'its the economy stupid'. But it did not. And not only did it fail but it was proved almost entirely hysteria. And that is what is driving the issues now. Both Remainers and Leavers are driven by identity. About how they see themselves. About how they envisage the future. That is why this is all so damaging. If it was simply down to pounds, shillings and pence then we would not be at each others throats. Hence why all the insults, especially from the Remain camp. Look at the disdain, the contempt. All from the Culture Wars handbooks. All the buzz words. Brexit is about the future of the UK and by default, by globalisation. Of how it is defined. Always makes me smile when we see the term 'populist' bandied about like an insult. When did 'popular', especially in terms of how democracy works, become a bad thing? Remain is primarily driven by nothing more than an excessive sense of self-worth. Snobbery really. Edited by Matov (12 Sep 2019 1.00pm)
That’s human nature and I wouldn’t expect anything else no matter how virtuous they believe they are. Get a Lib Dem leader to invite millions of high quality Mediterranean graduates in as Tony Bliar did with 2004+ cheap labour and then see how much their future is protected or ruined. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Sep 2019 1.35pm)
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