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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 johnfirewall  22 Jun 16 4.34pm |
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Originally posted by europalace
If you reverse the net migration figure of 336,000 what do you get? This figure ranges from 77,000 in 1994 to an average of 200,000 each year since 2004. Although these figures also indicate that the majority are from outside the EU. The key figure is that we have 3m EU citizens while 1m Brits live elsewhere in the EU which is +3% Edited by johnfirewall (22 Jun 2016 4.38pm)
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 Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 4.42pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
My definition of xenophobia matches that to be found in the OED:- " Dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries" Which is precisely what I meant when I used it. The ONLY way we will be able to reduce our need for immigration is if our economy declines, and so does the number of jobs. Leaving may well achieve that, but at what cost? If our economy doesn't decline so far (which I think unlikely) then we will still need immigration. Immigrants arrive for work. No work, no immigrants. More work, more immigrants. They would just come anyway, but from a wider spectrum than at present. So to be prejudiced against EU migration is indeed to be xenophobic. Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. By your reckoning,if immigration is so good for the economy then the economy will continue to be good and therefore immigrants will continue to come here. Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you? Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm)
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tome  Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jun 16 4.46pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Not as prosperous as it should be and doing worse than the other trading zones. Peace has little to do with the EU despite the guff you hear from the Remains. Interesting. How prosperous do you think it should be? And why do you think it's not? Personally, I think politics, finance and defence are so mixed up in skullduggery that given the previous generations of conflict and the actions of Russia and others, that the EU is the least worse option that stops relatively large economic powers using more of their firepower against each other.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 4.48pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You really believe that? I think you are kidding yourself. It will happen by stealth not with some grand fanfare. And they will not let us vote on it. And of course, it is a well know fact that young people are wiser than the old. Can you hear yourself? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 2.23pm) But would a united states of Europe actually be a bad thing. Personally, I like the idea, I would just like a vote on it. But I'd like a vote on a lot of things that just get fostered on me by my so called 'own government' selected by around 35% of the population. Arguably the United States of America, the United Kingdom etc seem to be fairly function and the nature of a lot of countries is that in association, their interests are more powerful, than apart.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 4.51pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. By your reckoning,if immigration is so good for the economy then the economy will continue to be good and therefore immigrants will continue to come here. Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you? Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm) As I've said immigration is not an issue. I know leaving would weaken the EU project, (which is a behemoth neoliberal institution that favours multinationals over small business), possibly causing it's demise leaving room for a better more socialist model. What other reasons are there? Bear in mind I know that the eu have imposed 55/72 (depending on where you get the figure) do we know what these regulations/laws are? Go on convince me. I'm still 50/50
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 4.53pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. Well you say that, and its true for a lot of the Leave camp, but I already know of several who just happen to be racist and voting out, but of course its not because they're racist or xenophobic when you confront them. I wouldn't doubt that many of the racist and xenophobic people of the UK, are voting out on the basis of their prejudice.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 4.57pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
If you reverse the net migration figure of 336,000 what do you get? This figure ranges from 77,000 in 1994 to an average of 200,000 each year since 2004. Although these figures also indicate that the majority are from outside the EU. The key figure is that we have 3m EU citizens while 1m Brits live elsewhere in the EU which is +3% Edited by johnfirewall (22 Jun 2016 4.38pm) I don't see how he 'outside the EU' migrants figure in an argument about EU migration. We have, and always have had a vast capacity to control non-EU migration. Leaving the EU won't give our governments more capacity or will to do that.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Part Time James 22 Jun 16 4.58pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Well you say that, and its true for a lot of the Leave camp, but I already know of several who just happen to be racist and voting out, but of course its not because they're racist or xenophobic when you confront them. I wouldn't doubt that many of the racist and xenophobic people of the UK, are voting out on the basis of their prejudice. Just because a racist gravitates towards one thing doesn't mean that everyone else is racist by association. I expect some racists eat Corn Flakes for breakfast but I don't feel guilty when I dig in to a bowl.
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| ghosteagle 22 Jun 16 4.59pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. By your reckoning,if immigration is so good for the economy then the economy will continue to be good and therefore immigrants will continue to come here. Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you? Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm) Right and fair, a noble desire for your children. But it has absolutely nothing to do with brexit. The magical narnia that the leave campaign is promoting lacks all credibility.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
Voting: out Zero wage rises That’s enough to sway me. All of these are really the fault of successive British Governments, going back to the 80s. Except for the last one, that's just a load of bollocks, as there are no such thing as British values, way of life, culture and general identity. The first three are entirely subjective experiences and the final one is a oxymoronic statement. Oddly whilst in the Leave camp, I think immigration has actually improved the diversity of culture and identity of citizens, by exposure to more discourses and ideas of British being. Because I remember the Britain of the 70s and 80s, it was just as s**t as the Britain of now. Just slightly different s**t.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| ghosteagle 22 Jun 16 5.14pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
Just because a racist gravitates towards one thing doesn't mean that everyone else is racist by association. I expect some racists eat Corn Flakes for breakfast but I don't feel guilty when I dig in to a bowl. How about weetabix?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 5.21pm |
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Originally posted by ghosteagle
How about weetabix? That's OK. But coco pops are a no no. f***ing brown milk coming over here...
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