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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 16 3.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Willo
Wisbech Believe it or not, I think for myself as well and have thought about this whole issue for several years. We couldn't be further apart on our thinking. I now have to deliver some leaflets so we will have to agree to disagree on this matter.No time to get into a protracted debate at the moment - far too busy. All the best. Edited by Willo (22 Jun 2016 2.11pm) I wager the leaflets you are delivering are the same as the one just pushed through my door! It says "Not sure which way to vote on June 23?" If so you should be ashamed of yourself. It is chock full of untrue assertions, or put in simple terms, lies! Just reading them made my blood boil. It appeals only to the xenophobic among us, and repeats 3 times the now totally discredited "£350 million a week" claim. My hope is that ordinary, decent people (who I believe comprise the often silent majority of our fellow citizens) will see this for what it is. Blatant propaganda, Farage style, and it will have the reverse effect of that which is intended.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jun 16 3.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Because the interests of Britain would be sacrificial relative to the Union, the bigger players in the union or the government of the union. See how politics in Britain and Europe works now and then imagine that in a USE. Aren't they anyway? Even if we adopt a protectionist attitude and only look out for the UK, the politics of the rest of the world won't stop. If anything, they'll probably be freer to take advantage of our stretched position if we leave.
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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 3.50pm | |
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Originally posted by tome
Aren't they anyway? Even if we adopt a protectionist attitude and only look out for the UK, the politics of the rest of the world won't stop. If anything, they'll probably be freer to take advantage of our stretched position if we leave. We won't be cut adrift like a plague ship. People will still want to sell us stuff and we are still part of NATO and the United Nations. Being in the EU hinders us when negotiating with the rest of the World and means that any decisions are made for the good of Europe (that usualy means Germany and France) not Britain.
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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 3.55pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I wager the leaflets you are delivering are the same as the one just pushed through my door! It says "Not sure which way to vote on June 23?" If so you should be ashamed of yourself. It is chock full of untrue assertions, or put in simple terms, lies! Just reading them made my blood boil. It appeals only to the xenophobic among us, and repeats 3 times the now totally discredited "£350 million a week" claim. My hope is that ordinary, decent people (who I believe comprise the often silent majority of our fellow citizens) will see this for what it is. Blatant propaganda, Farage style, and it will have the reverse effect of that which is intended. I stopped reading after "Xenophobic". Your definition of xenophobia obviously means, not happy for 300k plus people to come here every year for the foreseeable future with no plans to cope with those numbers or recognise the serious economic, social and practical problems that will cause.
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jun 16 3.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We won't be cut adrift like a plague ship. People will still want to sell us stuff and we are still part of NATO and the United Nations. Being in the EU hinders us when negotiating with the rest of the World and means that any decisions are made for the good of Europe (that usualy means Germany and France) not Britain. That last bit will be exacerbated if we leave, then? I happen to think mutual benefit is the way to go. Britain will benefit from other countries economies improving too, we can sell more stuff to others if they have money to spend. So being part of a collective negotiation would seem to help that, don't you think?
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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 3.58pm | |
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Originally posted by tome
That last bit will be exacerbated if we leave, then? I happen to think mutual benefit is the way to go. Britain will benefit from other countries economies improving too, we can sell more stuff to others if they have money to spend. So being part of a collective negotiation would seem to help that, don't you think? So why is the Eurozone doing so badly then?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 16 4.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I stopped reading after "Xenophobic". Your definition of xenophobia obviously means, not happy for 300k plus people to come here every year for the foreseeable future with no plans to cope with those numbers or recognise the serious economic, social and practical problems that will cause. My definition of xenophobia matches that to be found in the OED:- " Dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries" Which is precisely what I meant when I used it. The ONLY way we will be able to reduce our need for immigration is if our economy declines, and so does the number of jobs. Leaving may well achieve that, but at what cost? If our economy doesn't decline so far (which I think unlikely) then we will still need immigration. Immigrants arrive for work. No work, no immigrants. More work, more immigrants. They would just come anyway, but from a wider spectrum than at present. So to be prejudiced against EU migration is indeed to be xenophobic.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jun 16 4.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So why is the Eurozone doing so badly then? Is it though? Seems the Eurozone is relatively prosperous and peaceful to me. Sure, the EU could work better - but that's true of everything. But their are wider political and economic issues, such as the fallout from the 2008 banking crisis, and the politics involved in that. I'm not sure how stepping outside the EU is going to help make a better fist of it.
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europalace Europe 22 Jun 16 4.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
Voting: out Zero wage rises That’s enough to sway me.
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jun 16 4.24pm | |
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I think this is a reasonably balanced summary:
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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 4.30pm | |
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Originally posted by tome
Is it though? Seems the Eurozone is relatively prosperous and peaceful to me. Sure, the EU could work better - but that's true of everything. But their are wider political and economic issues, such as the fallout from the 2008 banking crisis, and the politics involved in that. I'm not sure how stepping outside the EU is going to help make a better fist of it. Not as prosperous as it should be and doing worse than the other trading zones. Peace has little to do with the EU despite the guff you hear from the Remains.
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Stuk Top half 22 Jun 16 4.32pm | |
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Originally posted by europalace
Because they chose to sign up to free movement. We wouldn't have to do this if we left, it would be a choice. And no one in any other country will be sent back, just as no one already here would be.
Optimistic as ever |
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