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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 10.40am
Originally posted by Spiderman Hardly one [Link] It was precisely just one FRENCH minister, who was then backed up by an EU official. This is just noise. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 10.40am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Hardly one

[Link]

It was precisely just one FRENCH minister, who was then backed up by an EU official. This is just noise.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 10.45am
Originally posted by Badger11 If we leave without a deal it doesn't mean that we stop negotiating if the EU is willing to listen. It may actually be easier to do a deal post Brexit. The EU has put down a red line over the Irish border and doesn't want to be seen backing down. The EU also does not want to be seen rewarding us. Once we leave without a deal the EU will be forced to deal with that Irish issue one way or another. At the moment the issues are theoretical and diputed post Brexit they will be reality. Whatever solution they come up with that will be the basis for any negotiation. Like most I would prefer a deal but if we leave without one I still think that at some point in the not too distant future we will end up with one that the EU and Parliament can live with. Politics is getting in the way of business. Post Brexit the EU politicians can claim they stood firm and didn't let the UK get away with it. The issues from both sides will known and I think common sense will prevail. If anyone thinks we will eventually secure a better deal by leaving on Oct 31st without one then they are nuts. All our leverage will have gone and the EU will not wish to encourage any other waiverers. On top of that the issues behind the "backstop" won't be solved without a deal, indeed they are likely to be made worse. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 10.45am

Originally posted by Badger11

If we leave without a deal it doesn't mean that we stop negotiating if the EU is willing to listen.

It may actually be easier to do a deal post Brexit. The EU has put down a red line over the Irish border and doesn't want to be seen backing down. The EU also does not want to be seen rewarding us.

Once we leave without a deal the EU will be forced to deal with that Irish issue one way or another. At the moment the issues are theoretical and diputed post Brexit they will be reality.

Whatever solution they come up with that will be the basis for any negotiation.

Like most I would prefer a deal but if we leave without one I still think that at some point in the not too distant future we will end up with one that the EU and Parliament can live with.

Politics is getting in the way of business. Post Brexit the EU politicians can claim they stood firm and didn't let the UK get away with it. The issues from both sides will known and I think common sense will prevail.

If anyone thinks we will eventually secure a better deal by leaving on Oct 31st without one then they are nuts. All our leverage will have gone and the EU will not wish to encourage any other waiverers.

On top of that the issues behind the "backstop" won't be solved without a deal, indeed they are likely to be made worse.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 09 Sep 19 11.01am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If anyone thinks we will eventually secure a better deal by leaving on Oct 31st without one then they are nuts. All our leverage will have gone and the EU will not wish to encourage any other waiverers. On top of that the issues behind the "backstop" won't be solved without a deal, indeed they are likely to be made worse. All our leverage went when MPs voted to make No Deal illegal.....all negotiating power disappeared with that vote!
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 09 Sep 19 11.01am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

On top of that the issues behind the "backstop" won't be solved without a deal, indeed they are likely to be made worse.

All our leverage went when MPs voted to make No Deal illegal.....all negotiating power disappeared with that vote!

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chris123 hove actually 09 Sep 19 11.11am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle They have, and for some very good reasons. We have objected, for some equally good reasons. So we have an impasse. When you have an impasse you just need to work harder to find a path around or through it. Both sides need to understand the other's problems and work together to overcome them. As no-one wants this dragging on and on any more than they don't want "no deal" then the motivation to do just that is obvious. There is a new team in Brussels on November 1st. Hopefully soon after that we will have a new team in the UK. Playing "who blinks first" with the country's future is no way for mature, experienced politicians to behave. It might appeal to the macho types who seem to think everything will be OK, just wait and see, but it is totally irresponsible. I'm not really talking about blinking - more doing what was mandated in the referendum and the 2017 manifesto, that no matter how hard Parliament tries to stymie, we leave.
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chris123

hove actually 09 Sep 19 11.11am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They have, and for some very good reasons. We have objected, for some equally good reasons. So we have an impasse.

When you have an impasse you just need to work harder to find a path around or through it. Both sides need to understand the other's problems and work together to overcome them.

As no-one wants this dragging on and on any more than they don't want "no deal" then the motivation to do just that is obvious. There is a new team in Brussels on November 1st. Hopefully soon after that we will have a new team in the UK.

Playing "who blinks first" with the country's future is no way for mature, experienced politicians to behave. It might appeal to the macho types who seem to think everything will be OK, just wait and see, but it is totally irresponsible.

I'm not really talking about blinking - more doing what was mandated in the referendum and the 2017 manifesto, that no matter how hard Parliament tries to stymie, we leave.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 19 11.28am
I'd be interested to see how much funding/ lobbying the remain politicians are getting from outside interests. The Leave side was accused of Russian collusion, quite clearly these politicians are not acting on conscience. A future job promise on the gravy train of the EU parliament perhaps. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 19 11.28am

I'd be interested to see how much funding/ lobbying the remain politicians are getting from outside interests. The Leave side was accused of Russian collusion, quite clearly these politicians are not acting on conscience. A future job promise on the gravy train of the EU parliament perhaps.

Red and Blue Army!

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DANGERCLOSE London 09 Sep 19 11.40am
[Tweet Link]
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DANGERCLOSE

London 09 Sep 19 11.40am

[Tweet Link]

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Midlands Eagle 09 Sep 19 11.41am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If anyone thinks we will eventually secure a better deal by leaving on Oct 31st without one then they are nuts. All our leverage will have gone and the EU will not wish to encourage any other waiverers. Nonsense. We will have much more leverage or do you think that Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen will be happy with their cars having an extra 10% tariff imposed when their cars are imported into the country
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Midlands Eagle

09 Sep 19 11.41am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Nonsense. We will have much more leverage or do you think that Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen will be happy with their cars having an extra 10% tariff imposed when their cars are imported into the country

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 11.57am
Originally posted by the silurian All our leverage went when MPs voted to make No Deal illegal.....all negotiating power disappeared with that vote! If you think the EU was going to accept being bullied into accepting things it didn't want then you are seriously miscalculating how they think and act. They don't want "no deal" anymore than anyone else but there are things they want even less, and being seen to cave in to bullying tactics is certainly one of them. Allowing people to think this was a viable strategy is just window dressing. It never was, isn't now and that's well understood by most politicians. However, requiring the PM to seek an extension might, in a bizarre way, actually strengthen his chances of getting a little tweak or two to the already negotiated deal that would enable him to present it to Parliament and for it then to pass. Labour would oppose no matter what as they want an election, but it might just scrape over the line. I don't think the EU want this dragging on anymore either so by helping Johnson to get a deal done would help them too. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 11.57am

Originally posted by the silurian

All our leverage went when MPs voted to make No Deal illegal.....all negotiating power disappeared with that vote!

If you think the EU was going to accept being bullied into accepting things it didn't want then you are seriously miscalculating how they think and act.

They don't want "no deal" anymore than anyone else but there are things they want even less, and being seen to cave in to bullying tactics is certainly one of them.

Allowing people to think this was a viable strategy is just window dressing. It never was, isn't now and that's well understood by most politicians.

However, requiring the PM to seek an extension might, in a bizarre way, actually strengthen his chances of getting a little tweak or two to the already negotiated deal that would enable him to present it to Parliament and for it then to pass. Labour would oppose no matter what as they want an election, but it might just scrape over the line.

I don't think the EU want this dragging on anymore either so by helping Johnson to get a deal done would help them too.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 12.00pm
Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE [Tweet Link] We would never agree to that and as the EU cannot compel it either it would never happen. It's scaremongering nonsense. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 12.00pm

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

[Tweet Link]

We would never agree to that and as the EU cannot compel it either it would never happen.

It's scaremongering nonsense.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 12.08pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Nonsense. We will have much more leverage or do you think that Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen will be happy with their cars having an extra 10% tariff imposed when their cars are imported into the country That's of course true, but it's true whether we do a deal now or later. The point I was making was whether the EU would be more, or less, inclined to offer favourable terms if we left without a deal and caused everyone problems as a consequence. Right now our leverage on that is that we can ensure there is a peaceful, ordered transition. Later we don't have that but would have a legacy of causing headaches and a mess of paperwork and costs For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 12.08pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

That's of course true, but it's true whether we do a deal now or later. The point I was making was whether the EU would be more, or less, inclined to offer favourable terms if we left without a deal and caused everyone problems as a consequence.

Right now our leverage on that is that we can ensure there is a peaceful, ordered transition. Later we don't have that but would have a legacy of causing headaches and a mess of paperwork and costs

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Mapletree Croydon 09 Sep 19 12.17pm
Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE [Tweet Link] Well, doing a little research including Hansard I can't say James, nor Darren, appear particularly reliable in what they say. Please let me know from where this originates, presumably either a senior EU official of someone from the UK armed forces. Right at the moment this looks seriously suspect. I'm not saying you are gullible of course. Edited by Mapletree (09 Sep 2019 12.26pm)
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Mapletree

Croydon 09 Sep 19 12.17pm

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

[Tweet Link]

Well, doing a little research including Hansard I can't say James, nor Darren, appear particularly reliable in what they say.

Please let me know from where this originates, presumably either a senior EU official of someone from the UK armed forces.

Right at the moment this looks seriously suspect. I'm not saying you are gullible of course.

Edited by Mapletree (09 Sep 2019 12.26pm)

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Spiderman Horsham 09 Sep 19 12.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle We would never agree to that and as the EU cannot compel it either it would never happen. It's scaremongering nonsense. But didn't Cameron say it was never and will never be on the table? We may not have a choice
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Spiderman

Horsham 09 Sep 19 12.38pm