Don't be so sure about the US of Europe. They may wait until another generation comes through after we've been going in and out of crises of infrastructure. Paul Mason thinks the EU is finished as more countries fail their citizens but is being childish because there's 4 more years of Tory rule (not necessarily so however if leave).

'People won't come here if the economy cannot support them' translates to People won't come here if there's no earnings to send or take home. That is never mentioned so after the net benefit of immigrant taxes paid - benefits claimed - earnings leaving the UK, there's probably no benefit, possibly a cost, and possibly no GDP growth per capita either. So we're giving Polish and Romanian go getters a chance to advance themselves faster in their country at a cost to us, in quality of life, with little financial gain. I don't blame them, but what are we doing?

I have met quite a few EU migrants, prosperous and not so. All I have liked and haven't any prejudice towards because they are pleased to be here to improve their lot or gain an experience and make the most of either. I do not blame them. They've had the chance and taken it, but what I, and plenty of others object to, is mass net migration of 330,000 and that's after Brits emigrating. There has been a housing crisis since I started looking in 2005. When did the floodgates open? 2004. Now they are not the sole reason but they are a factor and a factor we can control. But no, why don't we say it won't solve it and plod on to a more sever housing problem?

If people in this country think we are ever going to get close to building enough housing to facilitate 330,000 more people entering the country plus our own population growth they are living in the clouds. We can barely build 100,000 homes. This does not affect me so if it's remain like I think it will be, I will only feel sorry for those young people who voted leave and just laugh off those in decade's time who voted remain. I'm past caring now. We'll see how this country has gone in x year's time.

COYP

I think for myself and am not knowingly influenced by any campaign tactics, much of which has been pretty distasteful. You, are by comparison, trotting out the slogans served up as swill by the "Remain" demagogues, including that nonsense from Boris yesterday. It is garbage and only fit to be in the swill.

We are no longer living in the years of Empire. We live in a global, interconnected, world in which we travel fast and information faster. Isolate ourselves and we will decline. No-one needs to tell me that. It is as obvious as the nose on my face. There are just some things done better together than on our own. We need to be at the table making sure that principle is understood, not just for our sakes, and the sakes of our children, but for our European neighbours as well.

Running away and thinking that we can do better alone is just not real. It is the sort of thing people do when they search for scapegoats. The kind of politics which says than anything must be better than what we have.

The trouble is that the grass next door is going to actually taste very sour.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You can have a view Willo. However, when it is clearly based on fed propaganda from the Leave camp you leave yourself open to attack. As Wisbech said, a U Sof E will not be possible in this country. Were the EU to suggest this THAT would be the time for a referendum. And we would not be the only country to bale out. Which is why it would not happen. Thus, why say it? I have seen a few good arguments about Leaving but this is obviously not one of them.

On your post, precisely what are your personal experiences of the EU that would inform your decision to support Leave?

And precisely what do you not like about the [largely British drafted] European Convention on Human Rights?

Genuinely interested as to how you manage to describe that post as "total and utter REMAIN hogwash". Genuinely. Because it is completely ridiculous to do so.

The only thing that is even remotely questionable is whether the economy would tailspin in the event of a Brexit vote.

The rest is either obviously true (that we would have to hold further referendums for any future integration towards a US of Europe, and that the young are generally more favourable to the EU than the old) or else his personal opinion (that you should consult the young as they have more to gain/lose from the outcome).

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

That is around say 160 years. Think how much the EU has changed in 40 years and how little control we have had over it.
Now think about us accelerating toward the inevitable result of the current trend.

Well broadly speaking but you are using a version of the spaghetti monster argument.

Anything could happen, but I believe that it doesn't take Nostradamus to predict the future of the EU. It's not really a secret that a Federal Europe is the ultimate aim.