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Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Feb 21 10.46am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

<snip>

we just muddle along with 30 year olds and everyone is happy that we are doing just enough to survive.

Our approach is totally unsustainable.

I agree with what you say except the part that "everyone is happy that we are doing just enough to survive" as I think that only the chairman and manager are happy as the former has seen his initial investment multiplied eightfold and the manager has done a great deal to restore his tarnished reputation

 

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TheBigToePunt Flag 02 Feb 21 11.21am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Having money in a club is not just about splashing it about. It attracts players as well, they see money and they see ambition, they see the chance for furthering their careers and they want to be involved with it.

Why anyone chooses us in any circumstances is frankly beyond me. Unless of course, we offer them an entirely overinflated salary, which in essence is probably what has happened, hence why we can’t get rid of any of the existing wastes of space before contract end.

This is why we need to take the Brentford approach to recruiting and get ourselves some decent scouts who can pluck future top players from obscurity. If they can do it, why can’t we? Oh yeh, it’s because we have a manager who would never trust that sort of talent to flourish at this level, so we just muddle along with 30 year olds and everyone is happy that we are doing just enough to survive.

Our approach is totally unsustainable.

Of course money is attractive, but (without repeating my earlier post) you can't just flood a club with cash. Even Chelsea can't. You have to break even over an FFP cycle. What we spend is, as a matter of public record, the limit of what we are allowed to, based on the clubs income.

Why do so many people struggle with that?

Promoting young players either from the youth team or from lower league clubs is of course a good idea -hence Eze, Ferguson, Mitchell and the £50m we got for AWB which got us out of debt- but it can't be the whole strategy for us.

Guaita has been a brilliant free transfer, Cahill has been really good when fit, as has Clyne. Ayew as offered great value for money, as has McCarthy. All these are late 20's or in their 30's, and I'd sign them all again in a heartbeat.

We need a combination of youngsters with promise, clever free transfers with a few larger transfer fees, not just copying Brentford.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Feb 2021 11.22am)

 

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Eaglecoops Flag CR3 02 Feb 21 11.46am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Of course money is attractive, but (without repeating my earlier post) you can't just flood a club with cash. Even Chelsea can't. You have to break even over an FFP cycle. What we spend is, as a matter of public record, the limit of what we are allowed to, based on the clubs income.

Why do so many people struggle with that?

Promoting young players either from the youth team or from lower league clubs is of course a good idea -hence Eze, Ferguson, Mitchell and the £50m we got for AWB which got us out of debt- but it can't be the whole strategy for us.

Guaita has been a brilliant free transfer, Cahill has been really good when fit, as has Clyne. Ayew as offered great value for money, as has McCarthy. All these are late 20's or in their 30's, and I'd sign them all again in a heartbeat.

We need a combination of youngsters with promise, clever free transfers with a few larger transfer fees, not just copying Brentford.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Feb 2021 11.22am)

Simplistically, our approach has been to buy old, sell with no future value, overpay salaries for fading stars to attract them to our club.

Why not copy Brentford, they have been able to fund the entire development of their new stadium out of their buying and selling policy over the last 5 years? They are light years ahead of us in terms of ambition and forward thinking.

How come players keep going to them rather than us picking them up, Watkins, Benrahma, Maupay, Mepham, Konsa, Gray. There is
£115m in just 6 players.

 

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TheBigToePunt Flag 02 Feb 21 12.17pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Simplistically, our approach has been to buy old, sell with no future value, overpay salaries for fading stars to attract them to our club.

Why not copy Brentford, they have been able to fund the entire development of their new stadium out of their buying and selling policy over the last 5 years? They are light years ahead of us in terms of ambition and forward thinking.

How come players keep going to them rather than us picking them up, Watkins, Benrahma, Maupay, Mepham, Konsa, Gray. There is
£115m in just 6 players.

With respect I think you are indeed putting it simplistically.

Buy old? So you ignore Eze, Ferguson, Mitchell, Reidewald, Meyer and AWB then?

Fading stars? Yes, Cabeye, Benteke and Sakho didn't do enough overall, but we had reached the stage where a team of hard working journeymen had taken us as far as they could, and we tried to go to the next level by investing in marquee signings. We paid the market rate for them.

We can't copy Brentford because whilst a team made up entirely of promising youngsters from the lower leagues would have a season or two to develop in the Championship without getting relegated, the premier league is just too tough for that.

The evidence is in your list. Watkins and Konsa look the part, and Maupay has done OK at Brighton. Otherwise, Benrahma literally hasn't even scored a goal for West Ham and has often looked poor. Mepham was at the heart of a defence that got Bournemouth relegated (when he could even get a game), and Gray proved over the course of several seasons at two premier league clubs that he wasn't good enough for the league.

Even if you took all the best players Brentford have sold it doesn't make a premier league team. Not even close. Yet we want to copy them?

 

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The Dolphin Flag 02 Feb 21 12.22pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Of course money is attractive, but (without repeating my earlier post) you can't just flood a club with cash. Even Chelsea can't. You have to break even over an FFP cycle. What we spend is, as a matter of public record, the limit of what we are allowed to, based on the clubs income.

Why do so many people struggle with that?

Promoting young players either from the youth team or from lower league clubs is of course a good idea -hence Eze, Ferguson, Mitchell and the £50m we got for AWB which got us out of debt- but it can't be the whole strategy for us.

Guaita has been a brilliant free transfer, Cahill has been really good when fit, as has Clyne. Ayew as offered great value for money, as has McCarthy. All these are late 20's or in their 30's, and I'd sign them all again in a heartbeat.

We need a combination of youngsters with promise, clever free transfers with a few larger transfer fees, not just copying Brentford.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (02 Feb 2021 11.22am)

Good post as is your other one on another topic.
I think peoples issues are currently with the Manager and what he gets out of what we have - that is certainly mine anyway.
I am generally happy with SP at the helm of the Club and I also accept that we cannot just go out and buy who we want.
However - even within those constraints we should be doing slightly better in my opinion

 

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Crystal_Clear Flag Belfast 02 Feb 21 12.23pm Send a Private Message to Crystal_Clear Add Crystal_Clear as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Simplistically, our approach has been to buy old, sell with no future value, overpay salaries for fading stars to attract them to our club.

Why not copy Brentford, they have been able to fund the entire development of their new stadium out of their buying and selling policy over the last 5 years? They are light years ahead of us in terms of ambition and forward thinking.

How come players keep going to them rather than us picking them up, Watkins, Benrahma, Maupay, Mepham, Konsa, Gray. There is
£115m in just 6 players.

We are seemingly risk adverse, that's why we go for established PL players.

You look at those players listed and there is a considerable degree of risk bringing them in, though at a championship level that risk is significantly reduced. That's why we seemingly don't take punts on lower league players.

Now if you look at those players after they were brought into the PL from the Championship, it's been very hit and miss.

Watkins - I would say successful so far
Benrahama - jury still out on him - hasn't exactly produced the same.
Maupay - For the money (£20m +) - could well fall into a miss
Mepham - definitely a miss
Konsa - seems to be hit
Gray - more of a miss really.

We don't have big money to gamble unproven players. Eze had shown that he was less of a risk eventhough he had not played PL football. West Ham have paid what (£25m- £30m) for Benrahama and he could turn out to be more of a flop.

The thing is, are we going to change our strategy this summer and take risks on younger players unproven in the PL. Players like Flynn Downes at Ipswich, Collins at Stoke or Alise at Reading.

If Roy stays on again, then don't expect a change in strategy and we will continue to look at experienced players. Therefore, we will continually be in the same situation, with the same problems.

 

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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Feb 21 12.31pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

If Parish decides to change manager in the summer that might explain why we are holding onto our money, that and January is never a good time to buy players.

 


One more point

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doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 02 Feb 21 12.49pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Having money in a club is not just about splashing it about. It attracts players as well, they see money and they see ambition, they see the chance for furthering their careers and they want to be involved with it.

Why anyone chooses us in any circumstances is frankly beyond me. Unless of course, we offer them an entirely overinflated salary, which in essence is probably what has happened, hence why we can’t get rid of any of the existing wastes of space before contract end.

This is why we need to take the Brentford approach to recruiting and get ourselves some decent scouts who can pluck future top players from obscurity. If they can do it, why can’t we? Oh yeh, it’s because we have a manager who would never trust that sort of talent to flourish at this level, so we just muddle along with 30 year olds and everyone is happy that we are doing just enough to survive.

Our approach is totally unsustainable.


Sorry but what evidence do you have that Hodgson has the main say as to who comes in? I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that it's Parish and Freedman who call the shots when it comes to bringing new players in. At best, Hodgson gets told who the club are scouting and monitoring.

 

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TheBigToePunt Flag 02 Feb 21 1.01pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


Sorry but what evidence do you have that Hodgson has the main say as to who comes in? I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that it's Parish and Freedman who call the shots when it comes to bringing new players in. At best, Hodgson gets told who the club are scouting and monitoring.

That is very clearly exactly how it works, at Palace and at most clubs these days.

 

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Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 02 Feb 21 1.09pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Having money in a club is not just about splashing it about. It attracts players as well, they see money and they see ambition, they see the chance for furthering their careers and they want to be involved with it.

Why anyone chooses us in any circumstances is frankly beyond me. Unless of course, we offer them an entirely overinflated salary, which in essence is probably what has happened, hence why we can’t get rid of any of the existing wastes of space before contract end.

This is why we need to take the Brentford approach to recruiting and get ourselves some decent scouts who can pluck future top players from obscurity. If they can do it, why can’t we? Oh yeh, it’s because we have a manager who would never trust that sort of talent to flourish at this level, so we just muddle along with 30 year olds and everyone is happy that we are doing just enough to survive.

Our approach is totally unsustainable.

I feel your opinion of our manger we have now is clouding your overall impression of our club and it's stature today, we just happen to be at the moment in a position where our club through failing finances has possibly lost the ability to move forwards because of the age of the squad resulting in it needing to do too much in the transfer market to keep the momentum going.

Edited by Tickled pink (02 Feb 2021 1.11pm)

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Feb 21 1.32pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Crystal_Clear

We don't have big money to gamble unproven players. Eze had shown that he was less of a risk eventhough he had not played PL football. West Ham have paid what (£25m- £30m) for Benrahama and he could turn out to be more of a flop.


You forgot Bowen

 

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Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 02 Feb 21 1.33pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I agree with what you say except the part that "everyone is happy that we are doing just enough to survive" as I think that only the chairman and manager are happy as the former has seen his initial investment multiplied eightfold and the manager has done a great deal to restore his tarnished reputation

I feel frustrated as many others will to, the stadium is always first impressions and to get that up to date is surely the most impotent thing for any club whether we stay or move and it appears to me also that on the pitch we mirror our progress with it.
We should be called Crystallised Palace because we leave everything we do until it's all too late.

 

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