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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 06 Sep 19 8.33am |
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What’s the problem with Emily Thornberry’s plan (idea)? You campaign in a GE that: You go too Brussels not believing in leaving as you’re remain. Well that’s how stupid a lot of this country is. They won’t see the flawed logic, at not just one stage of that farce, and I include educated lefties with life experience in that.
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| Midlands Eagle 06 Sep 19 8.33am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
<snip> The fanatics are the MPs who refused to accept the result of the referendum and the GE manifesto they stood on. Regardless of how some on here think that MPs should be free to vote how they like this is party politics and any party is free to turf out those that disagree. Only the one
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 Sep 19 8.42am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
That makes sense. If I was a left of centre Remainer why would I vote Labour? Corbyn may or may not support leaving the EU why should I take that chance. At least the you know where you stand with the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP and I expect they will all do well. I think there will be more tactical voting in this GE than ever before. We should not forget Farage if he thinks that Boris is not Brexit enough he may split the vote in Leave seats. Another election over Brexit when there’s other important issues affecting the country. That’s 2 BS elections over Brexit since the referendum they’ve delayed and objected to. Public services are fvcked in this country and we’re going through all this, entertaining as it is, and I couldn’t care less what the rest of the world thinks. They still want our ££’s. I wouldn’t be surprised at even another one. (Yes I know Corbyn made his previous GE campaign about domestic policies, and he won, apparently, no he didn’t, yes he did, no no no)
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| chris123 hove actually 06 Sep 19 8.57am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Another bad day for Boris yesterday he did look a bit rattled. Labour must be pretty smug at the moment but for how long. Most Tory leaders since Major have left due to the EU and the split in the party. Boris may go the same way but at least he is now trying to address the problem within his own party. The fanatics are the MPs who refused to accept the result of the referendum and the GE manifesto they stood on. Regardless of how some on here think that MPs should be free to vote how they like this is party politics and any party is free to turf out those that disagree. Many Tory MPs are either pro EU or at worst neutral but are supporting the government. Tory voters and members however are overwhelmingly Leavers so that is the norm for the Tory party. Labour has the same split and one day they also will have to face it. At the moment Labour are against any Tory deal or no deal but this parliament has shown it is easier to vote against something rather than to vote for something. If Labour wins the GE Corbyn will have to be "for" something. He will then find that his MPs are either upset that he is too pro EU or not anti EU enough. Back to the present I really hope we have a GE but I can see Labour successfully delaying it and no wonder they are in a big a mess as the Tories. Johnson wants a GE so that we leave, a clear and simple policy. Labour want a GE so they can then call a referendum, in other words they want a vote to have a vote. I am not sure the public will like that idea nor can Labour easily explain their strategy to the voters. Still all to play for. It is Parliament that's failed - comment about no one voted for no deal is a deflection - the electorate were entitled to expect Parliament to act as instructed.
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| Mapletree Croydon 06 Sep 19 9.06am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Buy 'all out war' the story of the referendum if you want to know the thought processes of Cummings. How do you have time to read when you never stop writing?
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| Mapletree Croydon 06 Sep 19 9.08am |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Looking at those clips above, there is more chance of Wisbeach, Maple and Maine voting to leave than Labour winning an election. As a matter of interest what makes them loony? Presumably they are far less palatable than the highly impressive Johnson and his acolytes and the similarly impressive Corbyn and his.
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 06 Sep 19 9.33am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
As a matter of interest what makes them loony? Presumably they are far less palatable than the highly impressive Johnson and his acolytes and the similarly impressive Corbyn and his. Johnson, as he proved yesterday, is nothing more than a bumbling womble bobbing about in an Eton mess entirely of his own making Things are now so desperate that committed brexiteers only have this shambles left to cling on to. Objectivity has gone out the window completely
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Sep 19 9.33am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Another bad day for Boris yesterday he did look a bit rattled. Labour must be pretty smug at the moment but for how long. Most Tory leaders since Major have left due to the EU and the split in the party. Boris may go the same way but at least he is now trying to address the problem within his own party. The fanatics are the MPs who refused to accept the result of the referendum and the GE manifesto they stood on. Regardless of how some on here think that MPs should be free to vote how they like this is party politics and any party is free to turf out those that disagree. Many Tory MPs are either pro EU or at worst neutral but are supporting the government. Tory voters and members however are overwhelmingly Leavers so that is the norm for the Tory party. Labour has the same split and one day they also will have to face it. At the moment Labour are against any Tory deal or no deal but this parliament has shown it is easier to vote against something rather than to vote for something. If Labour wins the GE Corbyn will have to be "for" something. He will then find that his MPs are either upset that he is too pro EU or not anti EU enough. Back to the present I really hope we have a GE but I can see Labour successfully delaying it and no wonder they are in a big a mess as the Tories. Johnson wants a GE so that we leave, a clear and simple policy. Labour want a GE so they can then call a referendum, in other words they want a vote to have a vote. I am not sure the public will like that idea nor can Labour easily explain their strategy to the voters. Still all to play for. Both major parties have always had a "broad church" membership and MPs with vastly differing views. In that way they can appeal to a greater number of middle ground voters. As it's the middle ground which swing who actually gets into power this matters. If either party goes to their hard extreme then they would soon fade to the margins. We have seen it with Labour and Corbyn. Now we are seeing it with the Tories and Johnson, although I strongly suspect it not to be permanent in their case. Nor actually for Labour too, or they won't get back in for long. Of course any party can refuse membership on whatever grounds it likes but it does so at a significant cost to it's electability. The most obvious beneficiary are the LibDems. The plain fact is that MPs are free to vote whichever way they wish. Whether they should and what the consequences might be are completely different questions. My hope, but not my expectation, is that this will split and eventually destroy both major parties and we can then see a genuine realignment of British politics. Of course those who believe in hard right and hard left politics need a permanent voice but so too do all those who don't and who occupy the moderate middle ground of tolerance and compassion which typifies the average British citizen. This might well result in constant coalition governments but at least we would not see any more coup attempts such as we have witnessed in recent years.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Sep 19 9.40am |
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Originally posted by chris123
It is Parliament that's failed - comment about no one voted for no deal is a deflection - the electorate were entitled to expect Parliament to act as instructed. For the umpteenth time............. The electorate don't instruct Parliament to do anything. They vote into Parliament MPs to represent them and all their fellow constituents whether they voted for them, against them or not at all.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| DanH SW2 06 Sep 19 9.49am |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Johnson, as he proved yesterday, is nothing more than a bumbling womble bobbing about in an Eton mess entirely of his own making Things are now so desperate that committed brexiteers only have this shambles left to cling on to. Objectivity has gone out the window completely This happened ages ago. Brexit has completely turned into a cult.
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| chris123 hove actually 06 Sep 19 9.57am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
For the umpteenth time............. The electorate don't instruct Parliament to do anything. They vote into Parliament MPs to represent them and all their fellow constituents whether they voted for them, against them or not at all. What do you think a referendum is then?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 06 Sep 19 10.07am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
For the umpteenth time............. The electorate don't instruct Parliament to do anything. They vote into Parliament MPs to represent them and all their fellow constituents whether they voted for them, against them or not at all.
Your position goes beyond dogmatic. The people expected the referendum result to be honored as promised. Any other interpretation is purely an attempt by the losing side to get their own way regardless. It is people like you who have created this farce and continue to disrupt the process. You can keep repeating your old guff as often as you like but we can all see the excuses for avoiding democracy becoming more transparent by the day.
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