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Eaglecoops CR3 01 May 22 7.38am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You have the cart before the horse!. Nato doesn't control its members. They control Nato. Nato is an alliance of like-minded nations, who all can, and do, act independently. The only time they act together is in the defence of them all. For which they train, and have established command and control structures in place. Putin wants to present this as Nato acting. Don't be fooled and present his propaganda for him Putin does not think like you, so it is irrelevant whether it is nato or individual nations supplying arms. I am pretty sure he has no interest in the finer detail of who has done what and for what purpose. Preventing escalation of this conflict should be the primary goal of nato but it will as normal end up a dick waving competition led primarily by the US
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 22 11.20am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
As usual the discussion advances into the absurd, I'll opt to look at other stuff for a while. Other voices could take the mantle. I will say though that rather than Russian bots I've actually posted links to commentators I look at. Videos with interviews from close to the front lines. Next time I actually post I'll link to an commentator's analysis I respect and people themselves can decide as to whether it's Russian propaganda or bots for themselves. That will be interesting! Commentators you respect and respectable commentators being, of course, somewhat different. Here is a link to a really well-informed commentator. Someone who worked for years as a Russian specialist for British Intelligence, and who retains strong links within Russia. This is the Twitter account of Christopher Steele:- [Tweet Link]
As a taster, here is one of his tweets:- "Putin’s transformation of Russia into a pariah, rogue state is almost complete. It was only a matter of time before the Kremlin man-baby, sulking at defeat by the Ukrainians on the battlefield, started using gas exports as a political lever."
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 22 11.29am | |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Putin does not think like you, so it is irrelevant whether it is nato or individual nations supplying arms. I am pretty sure he has no interest in the finer detail of who has done what and for what purpose. Preventing escalation of this conflict should be the primary goal of nato but it will as normal end up a dick waving competition led primarily by the US What's irrelevant is thinking that what Putin says is what he thinks. He knows full well that Nato is a defensive alliance of nation states. That though doesn't suit his objectives, so isn't the narrative he presents, either internally or externally via his bots. The west has no interest in demonstrating strength other than as a means to restrain Putin. Finding a way to do that, which allows Putin to save face and not feel the need to escalate, is a tricky balancing act. I would imagine this is employing many analysts working out the risks of every possible step.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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BlueJay UK 01 May 22 11.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That will be interesting! Commentators you respect and respectable commentators being, of course, somewhat different. Less so than even having a view on the quality of a source I find it very curious that someone declares that they next time they post it will essentially be in defense of the Russian position. Ultimately the big picture of the reality on the ground is the optional invasion of a neighboring country and typical civilian slaying and carpet bombing of areas that results. This wasn't a limited invasion, we can well see what was initially attempted then rowed back and so ultimately the onus is on Russia in any proposed 'peace process'. External types essentially advocating that we lay down arms and just let the then inevitable happen to these people, fail to see that this would embolden Russia not bring about more moderate behaviour. Those in closer proximity to Russia clearly already see this. Fascinating really how those scoffing at people highlighting provably false and relentless examples of Russia propaganda, choose to so easily turn on their own (the west) just because they've already lost faith in their own country on multiple levels. 'Alternative media' types don't realise how easily manipulated and isolated from absolutely anything pertaining to genuine and meaningful allegiance they have allowed themselves to become. They are not without valid points, but inevitably go so all in, in the other direction, that they can't see the wood for the trees. Edited by BlueJay (01 May 2022 11.57pm)
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BlueJay UK 01 May 22 11.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Putin does not think like you, so it is irrelevant whether it is nato or individual nations supplying arms. I am pretty sure he has no interest in the finer detail of who has done what and for what purpose. Preventing escalation of this conflict should be the primary goal of nato but it will as normal end up a dick waving competition led primarily by the US That's a two way street then. The same argument as saying that we shouldn't care if its a nato country or not. Though of course we do (hence just supplying weapons, but will only directly defend nato countries), because to an extent we operate by knowable red lines and principles, with Russia instead functioning on the basis that they can exploit that. That is where the beginning and end of Putin's (lack of) principle lies.
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Ouzo Dan Behind you 02 May 22 5.16am | |
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More nuclear threats thrown at Britain [Tweet Link]
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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Eaglecoops CR3 02 May 22 6.23am | |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
That's a two way street then. The same argument as saying that we shouldn't care if its a nato country or not. Though of course we do (hence just supplying weapons, but will only directly defend nato countries), because to an extent we operate by knowable red lines and principles, with Russia instead functioning on the basis that they can exploit that. That is where the beginning and end of Putin's (lack of) principle lies. How you can come to that conclusion from what I have written is beyond me. All I am saying is that Putin doesn’t give two hoots what the West is doing, he has his own agenda and will twist whatever the West does to suit that.
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 02 May 22 8.08am | |
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Russians have stolen farm equipment "Russian troops stole nearly million worth of farm equipment from a John Deere dealership in Melitopol. The stolen equipment was located by remote GPS and locked, preventing it from being used. "When the invaders drove the stolen harvesters to Chechnya, they realized that they could not even turn them on," a source told CNN." (Yahoo.com)
Edited by Forest Hillbilly (02 May 2022 8.09am) Attachment: tractor.JPG (6,582.84Kb)
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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Stirlingsays 02 May 22 8.15am | |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
Russians have stolen farm equipment "Russian troops stole nearly million worth of farm equipment from a John Deere dealership in Melitopol. The stolen equipment was located by remote GPS and locked, preventing it from being used. "When the invaders drove the stolen harvesters to Chechnya, they realized that they could not even turn them on," a source told CNN." (Yahoo.com)
Edited by Forest Hillbilly (02 May 2022 8.09am) You went looking for hoes.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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W12 02 May 22 8.54am | |
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The time between things being made up s*** and then being exposed as made up s*** seems to be getting shorter: [Tweet Link]
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Mapletree Croydon 02 May 22 9.29am | |
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Originally posted by W12
The time between things being made up s*** and then being exposed as made up s*** seems to be getting shorter: [Tweet Link] the Ukraine Air Force Command has warned on Facebook that the "Ghost of Kyiv is a superhero-legend whose character was created by Ukrainians!". "We ask the Ukrainian community not to neglect the basic rules of information hygiene," the message said, urging people to "check the sources of information, before spreading it". So apparently not official sh*t, merely an urban legend.
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BlueJay UK 02 May 22 1.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
All I am saying is that Putin doesn’t give two hoots what the West is doing, he has his own agenda and will twist whatever the West does to suit that. You're saying he doesn't give a hoot about the finer details of our involvement, I'm saying that he routinely uses that against us, the fact that we do in fact have red lines that we actually stick to, to try to push said lines back even further (as it making even some of our own believe that we're the main aggressors for arming a besieged people, with less judgement on the actual invaders). It was a thought based on your contribution, not criticism of it.
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