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General Election 2017

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 22 May 17 3.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No I don't. I made that clear in my previous posts. That doesn't mean that I consider the equivalences that Mr Corbyn made and makes in any way acceptable for a potential PM.

As for the UVF, haven't I just made my position clear in regards to loyalists?

Let me state it again for the hard of reading.

I don't support vigilantism.
I prefer loyalists to the IRA because their main aim was to protect the British state not murder its members.
Any 'loyalists' who didn't act in that way deserved the same treatment as the IRA.

I'm pro the British state. I don't make equivalences between those who wished and planned to murder British soldiers and civilians and those who didn't.

It's you and others who do that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2017 2.42pm)

Unless they were Irish Catholics of course. Of course, neither side really comes off as superior, because they all have blood on their hands. Republican or Loyalist, ultimately, it was unavoidable in picking a side in the Troubles to avoid association with violence, once the civil rights movement fell apart.

Of course Corbyn was also right, to an extent, that peace could not be achieved without listening to the republican movement and granting it political legitimacy - What ever emotive issues people may have had about the Troubles.

Its lazy politics to score points on person, rather than policies.

In truth, the UK probably f**ked up its handling of the troubles from the start, and should have accepted the UN's offer to provide peace keeping duties.


 


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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 22 May 17 4.06pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Or you could stop playing politics(as If that would ever happen)and admit that this is a sensible policy to address the looming crisis of care for the elderly.
Those that can afford it should pay for their care should they not?

The point is that it's not a particularly fair way of operating a system of welfare as diseases such as dementia are fairly indiscriminate. Furthermore the payments are proportionate with wealth or some other measure that would ensure it's those who can afford most that pay the most. The system should work in a similar way to the NHS - i.e. it's available for all no matter your circumstances and free at the point of delivery. You pay in over your lifetime according to your means to ensure that, should you need it, the care is there and you don't have the worry of having to try and avoid discriminatory charges.

The problem of critically underfunded social care should be separated from issues around inheritance tax as age impacts on everyone differently and (often) not in accordance with their ways and means.

 

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Hansy Flag 22 May 17 4.06pm Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

I think I'd vote Labour if I was still in Streatham, just because Chuka does a fantastic job. However that also means voting for Corbyn. I follow alot of the Labour MPs on twitter and can't see alot of them retweeting what Corbyn posts, or campaigning with him. But then again 3/4 of the Labour MPs did vote no confidence in him last year, now suddenly he can run a country?

My area is also a Brexit area, but had a Lib Dem who is running again (He voted against invoking Article 50), so Tory will end up getting my vote. Best thing imo to happen, is Labour make some gains. Corbyn resigns and someone on the lines of Chuka gets the leadership. If not, and Corbyn fails to resign I could see a split.

Please remember to register though, whatever the result; your voice needs to be heard.


Edited by Hansy (22 May 2017 4.09pm)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 17 4.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Unless they were Irish Catholics of course. Of course, neither side really comes off as superior, because they all have blood on their hands. Republican or Loyalist, ultimately, it was unavoidable in picking a side in the Troubles to avoid association with violence, once the civil rights movement fell apart.

Of course Corbyn was also right, to an extent, that peace could not be achieved without listening to the republican movement and granting it political legitimacy - What ever emotive issues people may have had about the Troubles.

Its lazy politics to score points on person, rather than policies.

In truth, the UK probably f**ked up its handling of the troubles from the start, and should have accepted the UN's offer to provide peace keeping duties.


I suppose this has to just be another area where we don't see eye to eye on anything.

Though I will say that your take and approach seems to be the popular view.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 22 May 17 4.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hansy

I think I'd vote Labour if I was still in Streatham, just because Chuka does a fantastic job. However that also means voting for Corbyn. I follow alot of the Labour MPs on twitter and can't see alot of them retweeting what Corbyn posts, or campaigning with him. But then again 3/4 of the Labour MPs did vote no confidence in him last year, now suddenly he can run a country?

My area is also a Brexit area, but had a Lib Dem who is running again (He voted against invoking Article 50), so Tory will end up getting my vote. Best thing imo to happen, is Labour make some gains. Corbyn resigns and someone on the lines of Chuka gets the leadership. If not, and Corbyn fails to resign I could see a split.

Please remember to register though, whatever the result; your voice needs to be heard.


Edited by Hansy (22 May 2017 4.09pm)

Is that the same Chuka who doesn't believe in free speech and wants social media companies to filter and ban views?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hansy Flag 22 May 17 4.24pm Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

Not sure this is the same Chuka, care to enlighten?

Chuka Umunna was one of the leaders in the vote of No confidence on Corbyn. And more of a Centrist, which I prefer.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 May 17 4.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

The point is that it's not a particularly fair way of operating a system of welfare as diseases such as dementia are fairly indiscriminate. Furthermore the payments are proportionate with wealth or some other measure that would ensure it's those who can afford most that pay the most. The system should work in a similar way to the NHS - i.e. it's available for all no matter your circumstances and free at the point of delivery. You pay in over your lifetime according to your means to ensure that, should you need it, the care is there and you don't have the worry of having to try and avoid discriminatory charges.

The problem of critically underfunded social care should be separated from issues around inheritance tax as age impacts on everyone differently and (often) not in accordance with their ways and means.

I totally disagree. Dementia will soon be the biggest cause of death so it needs particular attention.
I don't agree that people with more money should pay more toward their health care. Why? As long as those that cannot pay are helped then that is sufficient.

This system will ensure that people have help when needed and not have to give up their home. It is a brave proposal which effects traditional Tory voters and one that acknowledges that tough medicine is needed to avoid a total breakdown of care for the infirm.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 May 17 4.32pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Hansy

I think I'd vote Labour if I was still in Streatham, just because Chuka does a fantastic job. However that also means voting for Corbyn. I follow alot of the Labour MPs on twitter and can't see alot of them retweeting what Corbyn posts, or campaigning with him. But then again 3/4 of the Labour MPs did vote no confidence in him last year, now suddenly he can run a country?

My area is also a Brexit area, but had a Lib Dem who is running again (He voted against invoking Article 50), so Tory will end up getting my vote. Best thing imo to happen, is Labour make some gains. Corbyn resigns and someone on the lines of Chuka gets the leadership. If not, and Corbyn fails to resign I could see a split.

Please remember to register though, whatever the result; your voice needs to be heard.


Edited by Hansy (22 May 2017 4.09pm)

It's surreal. They don't want him but they expect the public to vote for him as PM.

You couldn't make it up.

 

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Hansy Flag 22 May 17 4.36pm Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

Well they all want to keep their jobs (Those that were MPs). Could be why they are ignoring Corbyn's campaign and helping eachother instead.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 May 17 4.42pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Hansy

Well they all want to keep their jobs (Those that were MPs). Could be why they are ignoring Corbyn's campaign and helping eachother instead.

That is exactly what Labour are about in this election.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 22 May 17 4.50pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I don't think Gusset is running.

You must mean Compo.

Are you and new York mugman taking it in turns. I am flattered that I'm in your thoughts so much.

 

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Hansy Flag 22 May 17 4.51pm Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

Corbyn believes they have a very good chance, so is appealing to most with his manifesto.

Students - Free Education
Workers - Railway Nationalisation, everyone knows how badly run some of the franchises are.
Public servants (Armed Forces Exempt) - more employees to relieve stress.

Only ones it doesn't appeal to is the higher earners and businesses, where he is hoping to raise enough to pay for his pledges. Which is a gamble if we don't secure single market rights.

Majority of Labour MPs though, are getting ready for a leadership contest if Labour fails to cause an upset.

Edited by Hansy (22 May 2017 4.55pm)

 

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