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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 19 3.44am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Stirley. Pull your Johnson out of Hrolf and listen up, sunshine. I have been bald as a coot since 2003, so this is a gel free zone. I believe that some unholy alliance between Labour and the Lib Dems might see the infamous "people's vote" come to fruition. We both know what would happen then dont we! Who are these cast offs you speak of? Are they from Wisbech?? You're a lefty Mainey.....You don't care where they come from. They could come from Mars and you'd still be sniffing....in reality, a few come from places much worse than that...Places like Chatteris.....bring disinfectant. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2019 3.48am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 19 3.44am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Stirley. Pull your Johnson out of Hrolf and listen up, sunshine.

I have been bald as a coot since 2003, so this is a gel free zone.

I believe that some unholy alliance between Labour and the Lib Dems might see the infamous "people's vote" come to fruition.

We both know what would happen then dont we!

Who are these cast offs you speak of? Are they from Wisbech??

You're a lefty Mainey.....You don't care where they come from.

They could come from Mars and you'd still be sniffing....in reality, a few come from places much worse than that...Places like Chatteris.....bring disinfectant.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2019 3.48am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Maine Eagle USA 03 Sep 19 3.57am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You're a lefty Mainey.....You don't care where they come from. They could come from Mars and you'd still be sniffing....in reality, a few come from places much worse than that...Places like Chatteris.....bring disinfectant. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2019 3.48am) Lady Chatteris' lover??? Am I a lefty? I suppose I am a lefty more than a righty, but I do believe in capital punishment. Sniffing leftys from Mars...oh go on then. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.
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Maine Eagle

USA 03 Sep 19 3.57am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You're a lefty Mainey.....You don't care where they come from.

They could come from Mars and you'd still be sniffing....in reality, a few come from places much worse than that...Places like Chatteris.....bring disinfectant.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2019 3.48am)

Lady Chatteris' lover???

Am I a lefty? I suppose I am a lefty more than a righty, but I do believe in capital punishment.

Sniffing leftys from Mars...oh go on then.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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Matov 03 Sep 19 6.39am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle 1 - Do you still want to leave? 2 - If yes to 1, HOW the f*** do you wanna do it (the part missing in 2016). Sorry but why on earth would Remain still feature? It lost. Yes, you might be able to make a case for a variety of nuances around peoples understanding of 'Leave' but the basic reality of it meaning that we are no longer members of the EU cannot be doubted. Leave means Leave. End of. And a majority voted for that. Just be honest. You want to see Article 50 revoked and you want to pretend that you still believe in democracy. You want a cloak of respectability for your dictatorial desire to see the result of 2016 ignored. Have the courage to just be honest about that. Be up-front. I actually have a modicum of respect for people who just want the Leave vote ignored. Those who still proclaim it was just advisory and that there is nothing wrong with just dismissing it as irrelevant. We know where we stand with those people. There is a principle of a sort in that position. But lets cut the virtue signalling. Lets lose this notion that somehow you want to help us poor Leavers truly understand what we actually voted for on June 23rd. You don't think my vote should count as much as a Remainers. Own that. Be frank with us about that viewpoint. You will feel, in the long term, much better about yourself if you do. Edited by Matov (03 Sep 2019 6.39am) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

03 Sep 19 6.39am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

1 - Do you still want to leave?
2 - If yes to 1, HOW the f*** do you wanna do it (the part missing in 2016).

Sorry but why on earth would Remain still feature? It lost. Yes, you might be able to make a case for a variety of nuances around peoples understanding of 'Leave' but the basic reality of it meaning that we are no longer members of the EU cannot be doubted. Leave means Leave. End of. And a majority voted for that.

Just be honest. You want to see Article 50 revoked and you want to pretend that you still believe in democracy. You want a cloak of respectability for your dictatorial desire to see the result of 2016 ignored.

Have the courage to just be honest about that. Be up-front. I actually have a modicum of respect for people who just want the Leave vote ignored. Those who still proclaim it was just advisory and that there is nothing wrong with just dismissing it as irrelevant. We know where we stand with those people. There is a principle of a sort in that position.

But lets cut the virtue signalling. Lets lose this notion that somehow you want to help us poor Leavers truly understand what we actually voted for on June 23rd. You don't think my vote should count as much as a Remainers. Own that. Be frank with us about that viewpoint. You will feel, in the long term, much better about yourself if you do.

Edited by Matov (03 Sep 2019 6.39am)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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jeeagles 03 Sep 19 6.46am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle There is no mandate for no deal. Lets assume half the people who voted to leave did it listening to David Davis and co who extolled the virtues of a deal, and even said how easy said deal would be. s*, lets say it was more than half. Lets say its 10 million people. Thats 10 million for no deal, and about 24 million for "not no deal". How on earth can we sort this out, I hear you cry!!? A second vote. Now on to what questions should be on that vote: Think of someone who knows every single thing about Brexit as having a 100% Brexit knowledge base. In 2016 the country collectively had a 15% Brexit knowledge base. Given all the lies (on both sides) which have been found out, given all the positions of the EU which we now know about, given the backstop issue playing out, and all of these things, collectively the country is at about a 75% Brexit knowledge base right now in September 2019. That is a delta of knowledge, of 65%. That is why you should ask: 1 - Do you still want to leave? 2 - If yes to 1, HOW the f* do you wanna do it (the part missing in 2016). The arguments being put forward saying that there is no mandate for a no deal isn't working. Leavers, are saying that they need a no deal on the table for the best chance of getting a good deal. It's more negative, project fear, politics which the voting public hate. A second vote wont make all this go away. Even if remain win leave will carry on. Leave will run the campaign along a narrative asking voters "if they want to joint the EU". I didnt vote leave, but I certainly wouldn't vote to join the EU. No one will do a deal with Labour. Labour's only policy on Brexit is to call for a General Election every Wednesday. If there is a general election they will be ruined. They have no money to campaign and their vote will be divided up by the Brexit Party, Lib Dem, and even possibly the Tories.
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jeeagles

03 Sep 19 6.46am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

There is no mandate for no deal.

Lets assume half the people who voted to leave did it listening to David Davis and co who extolled the virtues of a deal, and even said how easy said deal would be. s***, lets say it was more than half. Lets say its 10 million people.

Thats 10 million for no deal, and about 24 million for "not no deal".

How on earth can we sort this out, I hear you cry!!?

A second vote.

Now on to what questions should be on that vote:

Think of someone who knows every single thing about Brexit as having a 100% Brexit knowledge base.

In 2016 the country collectively had a 15% Brexit knowledge base.

Given all the lies (on both sides) which have been found out, given all the positions of the EU which we now know about, given the backstop issue playing out, and all of these things, collectively the country is at about a 75% Brexit knowledge base right now in September 2019.

That is a delta of knowledge, of 65%.

That is why you should ask:

1 - Do you still want to leave?
2 - If yes to 1, HOW the f*** do you wanna do it (the part missing in 2016).

The arguments being put forward saying that there is no mandate for a no deal isn't working. Leavers, are saying that they need a no deal on the table for the best chance of getting a good deal. It's more negative, project fear, politics which the voting public hate.

A second vote wont make all this go away. Even if remain win leave will carry on. Leave will run the campaign along a narrative asking voters "if they want to joint the EU". I didnt vote leave, but I certainly wouldn't vote to join the EU.

No one will do a deal with Labour. Labour's only policy on Brexit is to call for a General Election every Wednesday. If there is a general election they will be ruined. They have no money to campaign and their vote will be divided up by the Brexit Party, Lib Dem, and even possibly the Tories.

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Matov 03 Sep 19 7.04am
Originally posted by jeeagles A second vote wont make all this go away. Even if remain win leave will carry on. The Leave campaign will step up. It will infect every part of British political life for decades to come. There is no return to the status quo with any kind of second referendum that features a 'Remain' option having no legitimacy. Edited by Matov (03 Sep 2019 7.06am) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

03 Sep 19 7.04am

Originally posted by jeeagles

A second vote wont make all this go away. Even if remain win leave will carry on.

The Leave campaign will step up. It will infect every part of British political life for decades to come. There is no return to the status quo with any kind of second referendum that features a 'Remain' option having no legitimacy.

Edited by Matov (03 Sep 2019 7.06am)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Badger11 Beckenham 03 Sep 19 7.26am
Today's the day. I am confident that Corbyn will win his vote with the help of about 11 Tory MPs and the rest of the opposition. I actually think that Johnson will be better off losing this vote. If by some miracle he did win it still means that the opposition could continue to come up with other ways to block Brexit which they may win. Time to lance the boil. Johnson will then ask parliament for a GE on 14 Oct which needs 3/4 of the house to vote for (not abstain). Corbyn said last night bring it on, he's a Martini boy any time any place, fair enough. One fly in the ointment some Labour Remain MPs are saying that will only agree to a GE after Oct 31 meaning they want an extension to Jan 21 before they will agree to a GE. I would be surprised if that is Labour's official policy the whole point of holding the election on Oct 14 is for the public to have their say those who don't support a GE after complaining about democracy being in danger will look rather stupid. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 03 Sep 19 7.26am

Today's the day.

I am confident that Corbyn will win his vote with the help of about 11 Tory MPs and the rest of the opposition. I actually think that Johnson will be better off losing this vote. If by some miracle he did win it still means that the opposition could continue to come up with other ways to block Brexit which they may win. Time to lance the boil.

Johnson will then ask parliament for a GE on 14 Oct which needs 3/4 of the house to vote for (not abstain).

Corbyn said last night bring it on, he's a Martini boy any time any place, fair enough.

One fly in the ointment some Labour Remain MPs are saying that will only agree to a GE after Oct 31 meaning they want an extension to Jan 21 before they will agree to a GE.

I would be surprised if that is Labour's official policy the whole point of holding the election on Oct 14 is for the public to have their say those who don't support a GE after complaining about democracy being in danger will look rather stupid.

One more point

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jeeagles 03 Sep 19 7.53am
Originally posted by Matov The Leave campaign will step up. It will infect every part of British political life for decades to come. There is no return to the status quo with any kind of second referendum that features a 'Remain' option having no legitimacy. Edited by Matov (03 Sep 2019 7.06am) Exactly, UK politics will turn far more toxic than it is now.
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jeeagles

03 Sep 19 7.53am

Originally posted by Matov

Edited by Matov (03 Sep 2019 7.06am)

Exactly, UK politics will turn far more toxic than it is now.

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Matov 03 Sep 19 7.58am
Originally posted by jeeagles Exactly, UK politics will turn far more toxic than it is now. I think it will go beyond politics. The country is divided now but if we do not leave the EU then the stabbed in the back narrative becomes a valid one to hold. We had a referendum, each vote was equally weighted and we were assured that the result would be implemented. Failure for that to happen has consequences that go far beyond the usual slings and arrows of political discourse. It would threaten to undermine the entire basis on which people allow themselves to be governed. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

03 Sep 19 7.58am

Originally posted by jeeagles

Exactly, UK politics will turn far more toxic than it is now.

I think it will go beyond politics. The country is divided now but if we do not leave the EU then the stabbed in the back narrative becomes a valid one to hold.

We had a referendum, each vote was equally weighted and we were assured that the result would be implemented. Failure for that to happen has consequences that go far beyond the usual slings and arrows of political discourse. It would threaten to undermine the entire basis on which people allow themselves to be governed.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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jeeagles 03 Sep 19 8.10am
Originally posted by Badger11 Today's the day. I am confident that Corbyn will win his vote with the help of about 11 Tory MPs and the rest of the opposition. I actually think that Johnson will be better off losing this vote. If by some miracle he did win it still means that the opposition could continue to come up with other ways to block Brexit which they may win. Time to lance the boil. Johnson will then ask parliament for a GE on 14 Oct which needs 3/4 of the house to vote for (not abstain). Corbyn said last night bring it on, he's a Martini boy any time any place, fair enough. One fly in the ointment some Labour Remain MPs are saying that will only agree to a GE after Oct 31 meaning they want an extension to Jan 21 before they will agree to a GE. I would be surprised if that is Labour's official policy the whole point of holding the election on Oct 14 is for the public to have their say those who don't support a GE after complaining about democracy being in danger will look rather stupid. Corbyn's speak last night was terrible. It seems the only reason he wants to get in power is to "defeat those nasty Tories" he's got no clear policy on Brexit, or anything else for that matter. Boris is a much more talented politician and will take him to the cleaners. If Johnson if the prolongation is stopped today today, he will accuse Labour of doing everything they can to block Brexit for a hungry power grab. There are no new arguments against Brexit or for the EU so it will just come across as an unnecessary delay. If Johnson get his way, then he will show he is successfully delivering on Brexit. If there is no general election, and there is a no deal is not an option, Labour will have effectively blocked Brexit. If he then asked for a General Election right away and Labour block it, because they fear a no-deal, he will then accuse them of trying to stop Brexit further. If he doesn't get a general election straight away Labour will be accused of another unnecessary Brexit delay. Then Labour will have to get of the fence and campaign for either leaving the EU (which they have blocked) or remaining (which is against what 60% of Labour constituencies voted for).
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jeeagles

03 Sep 19 8.10am

Originally posted by Badger11

Today's the day.

Johnson will then ask parliament for a GE on 14 Oct which needs 3/4 of the house to vote for (not abstain).

Corbyn said last night bring it on, he's a Martini boy any time any place, fair enough.

One fly in the ointment some Labour Remain MPs are saying that will only agree to a GE after Oct 31 meaning they want an extension to Jan 21 before they will agree to a GE.

Corbyn's speak last night was terrible. It seems the only reason he wants to get in power is to "defeat those nasty Tories" he's got no clear policy on Brexit, or anything else for that matter. Boris is a much more talented politician and will take him to the cleaners.

If Johnson if the prolongation is stopped today today, he will accuse Labour of doing everything they can to block Brexit for a hungry power grab. There are no new arguments against Brexit or for the EU so it will just come across as an unnecessary delay.

If Johnson get his way, then he will show he is successfully delivering on Brexit.

If there is no general election, and there is a no deal is not an option, Labour will have effectively blocked Brexit.

If he then asked for a General Election right away and Labour block it, because they fear a no-deal, he will then accuse them of trying to stop Brexit further.

If he doesn't get a general election straight away Labour will be accused of another unnecessary Brexit delay. Then Labour will have to get of the fence and campaign for either leaving the EU (which they have blocked) or remaining (which is against what 60% of Labour constituencies voted for).

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Badger11 Beckenham 03 Sep 19 8.15am
Originally posted by jeeagles Corbyn's speak last night was terrible. It seems the only reason he wants to get in power is to "defeat those nasty Tories" he's got no clear policy on Brexit, or anything else for that matter. Boris is a much more talented politician and will take him to the cleaners. If Johnson if the prolongation is stopped today today, he will accuse Labour of doing everything they can to block Brexit for a hungry power grab. There are no new arguments against Brexit or for the EU so it will just come across as an unnecessary delay. If Johnson get his way, then he will show he is successfully delivering on Brexit. If there is no general election, and there is a no deal is not an option, Labour will have effectively blocked Brexit. If he then asked for a General Election right away and Labour block it, because they fear a no-deal, he will then accuse them of trying to stop Brexit further. If he doesn't get a general election straight away Labour will be accused of another unnecessary Brexit delay. Then Labour will have to get of the fence and campaign for either leaving the EU (which they have blocked) or remaining (which is against what 60% of Labour constituencies voted for). Yup agree with most of this. Leaders seize the initiative every time Corbyn makes a move Johnson makes a counter move to put him on the back foot. Still all to play but right now my money is on Johnson. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 03 Sep 19 8.15am

Originally posted by jeeagles

If Johnson get his way, then he will show he is successfully delivering on Brexit.

If there is no general election, and there is a no deal is not an option, Labour will have effectively blocked Brexit.

If he then asked for a General Election right away and Labour block it, because they fear a no-deal, he will then accuse them of trying to stop Brexit further.

Yup agree with most of this. Leaders seize the initiative every time Corbyn makes a move Johnson makes a counter move to put him on the back foot.

Still all to play but right now my money is on Johnson.

One more point

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Midlands Eagle 03 Sep 19 8.27am
Originally posted by Badger11 Today's the day. True but I'm also looking forward to Boris's first PMQs tomorrow
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Midlands Eagle

03 Sep 19 8.27am

Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Badger11

Today's the day.

True but I'm also looking forward to Boris's first PMQs tomorrow

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Badger11 Beckenham 03 Sep 19 8.32am
Unbelievable Shami leather the shadow attorney General has just confirmed that Labour will only support a GE post 31 Oct. So let me get this straight. All those MPs and protesters claiming our democracy is under threat and the poeple must decide, now they have an opportunity to "save" their democracy they don't want it. You can't make this up. Edited by Badger11 (03 Sep 2019 8.33am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 03 Sep 19 8.32am

Unbelievable Shami leather the shadow attorney General has just confirmed that Labour will only support a GE post 31 Oct.

So let me get this straight. All those MPs and protesters claiming our democracy is under threat and the poeple must decide, now they have an opportunity to "save" their democracy they don't want it.

You can't make this up.

Edited by Badger11 (03 Sep 2019 8.33am)

One more point

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