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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Feb 22 7.26pm | |
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I follow Gab, but not for the reasons some do. It claims it is a haven of "free speech". I find it to be a cess pit of "hate speech", that is banned on platforms which moderate them out. It has a very obvious far-right user base. Gab's owner claims to be a champion of free speech, but this week he was a sponsor of, and keynote speaker, at AFPAC the political conference organised by Nick Fuentes. Someone so far right even Trump's GOP won't admit him to their conference. His whole approach is questionable, to say the least. It is overtly and aggressively "fundamentalist Christian", rather than "free speech". Indeed, anyone reading it will realise he seeks to exclude rather than include. This isn't Christianity as I remember it. You can read his speech here:- Gab allows support for Putin and plenty of the blame for the war being shifted onto Biden. It really is an eye-opener. You need an account to read it all, but you can get a flavour here:-
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Hrolf The Ganger 02 Mar 22 4.34pm | |
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Good to see Joe Biden looking so Presidential in these troubled times. And this is what the idiots on the left wanted to replace Trump with? None of us should be surprised that the Russians are moving with the Democrat corpse puppet in power.
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Stirlingsays 04 Mar 22 5.21am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Good to see Joe Biden looking so Presidential in these troubled times. And this is what the idiots on the left wanted to replace Trump with? None of us should be surprised that the Russians are moving with the Democrat corpse puppet in power. Nail on head. We are living in an idiocracy.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Omph Liverpool 04 Mar 22 6.00am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Good to see Joe Biden looking so Presidential in these troubled times. And this is what the idiots on the left wanted to replace Trump with? None of us should be surprised that the Russians are moving with the Democrat corpse puppet in power. Yep we would surely have been better off with Trump who tried to withhold defence aid to Ukraine, wanted to recognise the annexation of Crimea and was an on the record admirer of Putin. But so long as 99 out of 100 Ukraine citizens survive I'm sure Stirling will assure us it's a fuss about nothing.
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Stirlingsays 04 Mar 22 6.21am | |
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Originally posted by Omph
Yep we would surely have been better off with Trump who tried to withhold defence aid to Ukraine, wanted to recognise the annexation of Crimea and was an on the record admirer of Putin. But so long as 99 out of 100 Ukraine citizens survive I'm sure Stirling will assure us it's a fuss about nothing. I just don't know how deluded someone has to be to think that you're better off with the Democrats. Look at what has happened. For your information Trump sanctioned Russia as soon as he entered office and Biden took those sanctions off all while provoking and talking out of his backside with pointless tough talk. Trump kept up speaking terms with all the dangerous leaders except China. What on earth would America be doing funding the defence of European countries? What kind of person thinks that their defence is the responsibility of another nation? This is something else that Trump has been proven right about. He criticised Germany's reliance upon Russian gas and he criticised Europe's lack of defence spending. The Democrats, of course, criticised him. Now within a matter of years he's been proven right. Now it's literally the poor of the west who have to pay for the policies of idiots.....but hey, no mean tweets eh.....that's one hell of an expensive virtue signal when people can't afford to heat their homes next winter....yeah, cheers. As for the Crimea it's literally high majority Russian, I don't agree with its annexation just as I don't agree with Nato lying to Russia and expanding eastwards after the Berlin wall came down. One is the consequence of the other.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 22 12.09am | |
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This is the latest from Gab, the self-proclaimed bastion of free speech. I am on their mailing list, so it arrived in my inbox a day or two ago. It can though be found here, as a blog:- So free they are sympathising with Putin over the way the nasty west are trying to disrupt his propaganda and comparing the way they are "treated" with it. This is the "dissident right" in all its glory.
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BlueJay UK 07 Mar 22 1.37am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is the latest from Gab, the self-proclaimed bastion of free speech. I am on their mailing list, so it arrived in my inbox a day or two ago. It can though be found here, as a blog:- So free they are sympathising with Putin over the way the nasty west are trying to disrupt his propaganda and comparing the way they are "treated" with it. This is the "dissident right" in all its glory. It's fair enough to state that Facebook and Twitter have blocked RT, a government disinformation outlet (on account that its essentially now illegal in Russia to state that war is taking place, or to protest it). The sudden ban could be justified due to that, the dangers of it, or as part of a wider ongoing effort and sanctions to shine a light on realities rather than falsehoods. Also, if people want to blot out that context it could simply be considered an act of censorship. Where this Gab fellow appears to reveal himself as a mouthpiece for authoritarianism, is that he is very quick to find a way to justify Russia blocking these services in their entirely, which is a far more extreme measure and example of censorship. He also doesn't give a single mention to Russia shutting down news outlets that state a view contrary to the state 'no war' lie, the arrest of 10000+ Russians for peacefully stating that they disagree with the war, and the 15+ year prison sentences being threatened to anyone who questions the state line. And that's before we even get to the immorality and murder that is taking place in Ukraine. Taken as a whole does he even disapprove of government ordered imprisonment, disinformation, censorship or war resulted in the murder of civilians, where its not aimed in the direction of his politics? He should clarify his 'freedom loving' views in these areas.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 22 3.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I just don't know how deluded someone has to be to think that you're better off with the Democrats. Look at what has happened. For your information Trump sanctioned Russia as soon as he entered office and Biden took those sanctions off all while provoking and talking out of his backside with pointless tough talk. Trump kept up speaking terms with all the dangerous leaders except China. What on earth would America be doing funding the defence of European countries? What kind of person thinks that their defence is the responsibility of another nation? This is something else that Trump has been proven right about. He criticised Germany's reliance upon Russian gas and he criticised Europe's lack of defence spending. The Democrats, of course, criticised him. Now within a matter of years he's been proven right. Now it's literally the poor of the west who have to pay for the policies of idiots.....but hey, no mean tweets eh.....that's one hell of an expensive virtue signal when people can't afford to heat their homes next winter....yeah, cheers. As for the Crimea it's literally high majority Russian, I don't agree with its annexation just as I don't agree with Nato lying to Russia and expanding eastwards after the Berlin wall came down. One is the consequence of the other. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 7.05am) I have been waiting for someone else to pick this bundle of misinformation apart but as nobody else has, I will. I can only presume that people are so tired of these kinds of baseless assertions they just cannot be bothered. "For your information" Trump didn't sanction Russia immediately on taking office! He continued the policies of Obama, including the Magnitsky Act. Restrictions were placed 5 Russians over human rights abuses and then a bill was signed which targetted Russia's energy and "defence" industries. That though wasn't done on Trump's initiative. It was all the work of Congress, which passed the measures with overwhelming bipartisan support. Congress had widespread concerns that Trump was too cosy with Putin and feared he could over-turn the sanctions by executive order. Trump had little choice other than to agree to sign the bill but did so grudgingly, saying it was "seriously flawed". As we all remember Trump saying he believed Putin, rather than his own security forces, Congress's concerns can easily be understood. Biden has NOT removed the sanctions. He has imposed new ones, whilst trying to assist the Germans with their pipeline, via some flexibility, although still maintaining it was not a sensible long term strategy. That's diplomacy. This re-writing of history, as evidenced in the above, is a typical hard-right (and Trumpian) approach, worthy of the way that Putin himself behaves. American is not funding European defence any more than Europe is funding American defence. They are both funding Nato and are doing so because it's in their mutual interest. Trump was far from alone in thinking that Germany relying on Russian gas is a strategic mistake. Many felt unnerved by the implications. It hardly required a lot of brain power to work that out. It will change now. Crimea is ethnically more Russian than Ukrainian, but it was the Russians themselves who transferred it to Ukraine in 1954, whilst both were part of the Soviet Union. So they don't have a leg to stand on. The idea that Nato lied to Russia over any eastwards expansion has been comprehensively debunked in other comments. It isn't true. It's not even possible. Even Gorbachev has said it isn't true. More attempts at re-writing history by the right. That's the problem in getting your "information" from dodgy videos by self-appointed "experts" whose stock-in-trade are conspiracy theories. You get things wrong.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 22 3.10pm | |
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I will probably answer this in a few days....I can't be bothered writing long posts at the moment.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 09 Mar 22 4.34pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I have been waiting for someone else to pick this bundle of misinformation apart but as nobody else has, I will. I can only presume that people are so tired of these kinds of baseless assertions they just cannot be bothered. "For your information" Trump didn't sanction Russia immediately on taking office! He continued the policies of Obama, including the Magnitsky Act. Restrictions were placed 5 Russians over human rights abuses and then a bill was signed which targetted Russia's energy and "defence" industries. That though wasn't done on Trump's initiative. It was all the work of Congress, which passed the measures with overwhelming bipartisan support. Congress had widespread concerns that Trump was too cosy with Putin and feared he could over-turn the sanctions by executive order. Trump had little choice other than to agree to sign the bill but did so grudgingly, saying it was "seriously flawed". Trump was far from alone in thinking that Germany relying on Russian gas is a strategic mistake. Many felt unnerved by the implications. It hardly required a lot of brain power to work that out. It will change now.
Evidence of Trump's sanctions on Russia's pipeline. I'll state for the record no one could have forced Trump to have signed those sanctions. To quote from back in 2019, Trump stated that the pipeline, 'could turn Germany into a "hostage of Russia'. To further quote Trump's direct and recorded commentary to the Germans, 'I have to say, I think it's very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia, where you're supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia.' To quote the European and EU response at the time we have documented proof, presented here. To quote: 'The US sanctions have angered Russia and the European Union, which says it should be able to decide its own energy policies. Earlier this week German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she was "opposed to extraterritorial sanctions" against the Nord Stream 2 project. German foreign minister Heiko Maas struck a more combative tone, saying the sanctions amounted to "interference in autonomous decisions taken in Europe. Allseas, a Swiss-Dutch company involved in the project, said it had suspended its pipe-laying activities in anticipation of the sanctions. The EU voiced its clear opposition to the US sanctions. As a matter of principle, the EU opposes the imposition of sanctions against EU companies conducting legitimate business," a spokesman for the trading bloc told AFP news agency.' End quote. Also to quote the Democrats response to Trump's statements on Germany's reliance on Russian gas leading Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer said in a joint statement, 'President Trump’s brazen insults and denigration of one of America’s most steadfast allies, Germany, is an embarrassment' They then went on to bizarrely suggest that Trump's criticisms on Germany's reliance on Russian gas was pro Putin with, 'His behavior this morning is another profoundly disturbing signal that the President is more loyal to President Putin than to our NATO allies' I will be fair though and state that both Kerry and Biden did issue similar concerns to Trump. But the Democratic party was....as you are....was criticising Trump regardless of what he did out of pure deranged malice. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As we all remember Trump saying he believed Putin, rather than his own security forces, Congress's concerns can easily be understood. Considering elements within his security forces worked directly against their sitting president I have no issues with what he said because it was true. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Biden has NOT removed the sanctions. He has imposed new ones, whilst trying to assist the Germans with their pipeline, via some flexibility, although still maintaining it was not a sensible long term strategy. That's diplomacy. This re-writing of history, as evidenced in the above, is a typical hard-right (and Trumpian) approach, worthy of the way that Putin himself behaves.
If anyone 'rewrites history' it's you. Here is the link as proof. Essentially Biden tried to undo anything Trump had done seemingly purely for ideological reasons whether it was sensible or not.....and most of the time it wasn't. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
American is not funding European defence any more than Europe is funding American defence. They are both funding Nato and are doing so because it's in their mutual interest. When someone can suggest that America hasn't been funding the defence of Europe for decades it's just a direct denial of the truth. It wasn't the non existent troop in Germany keeping the Soviet Union at bay was it. America funds the lion's share of Nato and most of Europe literally outsourced their defence to Nato....It's incredible that you would contest this.....Anyone would weep for honesty. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Crimea is ethnically more Russian than Ukrainian, but it was the Russians themselves who transferred it to Ukraine in 1954, whilst both were part of the Soviet Union. So they don't have a leg to stand on. The idea that Nato lied to Russia over any eastwards expansion has been comprehensively debunked in other comments. It isn't true. It's not even possible. Even Gorbachev has said it isn't true. More attempts at re-writing history by the right. That's the problem in getting your "information" from dodgy videos by self-appointed "experts" whose stock-in-trade are conspiracy theories. You get things wrong. Not true and thank god the documents exist to 'debunk' you. The actual truth what was said at that meeting between Gorbachev and Baker and what was said to Russia by many other Nato and US officials was documented and it was released in 2017. It's very important that those who listen to the lies on this actually look into this: Read the documents, they are referenced here: The declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents are at the National Security Archive at George Washington University and show that the promise not to move eastwards was recorded in that meeting. In fact all the broken promises made to the Russians are proven in documents that can be directly referenced there. I'm western, I'm pro Nato, but I will not stand for lying and broken promises. Nato and Russia should have worked together and the arrogance of western leaders not prepared to do that directly led to the completely avoidable conflicts and suffering now. Boris Yeltsin also made a speech condemning Nato's expansion eastwards in the nineties. This would not be the case if there was agreement on this process. He directly warns that this will support extreme nationalism in Russia and end hopes of democracy. December 6, 1994 'Europe, not having yet freed itself from the heritage of the Cold War, is in danger of plunging into a cold peace. Why sow the seeds of mistrust? After all, we are no longer enemies. We are all partners.' 'It is a dangerous delusion to suppose that the destinies of continents and the world community in general can somehow be managed from one single capital' "We hear explanations to the effect that this is allegedly the expansion of stability -- just in case there are undesirable developments in Russia. If on those grounds ... the intentions are to move the responsibilities of NATO up to Russia's borders, let me say one thing: It's too early to bury democracy in Russia.'
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Mar 22 9.03pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
First off the bat I'll say that my enthusiasm for going over this old ground is seemingly far less than yours. However, as your revisionism is what it is I will restate the facts of what actually happened. This is wrong "off the bat"! I have no enthusiasm at all for going over old ground. What I have enthusiasm for is the truth, and what is in this long reply is a distortion of the truth. A vision of events from a particular perspective claimed as "fact". This is the standard tactic of a conspiracy theorist, although to be fair I doubt whether it is intentional, as it appears to be sincerely believed. Nevertheless, as there are much more important things to occupy us at the moment, I won't dissect every phrase, especially as I very much doubt these posts are being read by many people. I will just add a couple of points. I have already acknowledged that the USA was sounding warnings about the pipeline. They weren't alone. It looked a dubious move to many, me included. So to claim Trump was responsible for the objections is disingenuous. He just joined the chorus. The EU objected to the attempted interference by Trump, and not to the arguments put by the USA. Trump has no diplomacy skills at all. Biden tried to rebuild the relationship with the EU that had been fractured by Trump and part of that was to remove some sanctions on construction companies. The pipeline was going to get finished anyway, so this was a diplomatic move. The arguments about its commissioning continued, and it should be noted it hasn't been. That the USA is the biggest contributor to Nato is undeniable, but it doesn't do that for altruistic reasons. It does so as the leader of the free world who realises that any threat from a resurgent Russia would quickly reach their shores. That the USA leads Nato is in their own interests every bit as much as it is in Europe's. Meetings between various western leaders and Gorbachev, what was said by whom, and exchanged in briefing notes, don't change the facts. Nato did not, and could not, make such a promise. They weren't involved and their whole structure, and requirements for membership, automatically mean any such promises by individuals were invalid. It may well be the case that nods and winks were given, or deliberately misleading statements made, to get the prize of German reunification over the line. That though is politics, and politics can be a dirty game. It was inevitable that once Putin became entrenched, Russia's western neighbours, now free of the Soviet yoke, would fear he would want to impose it again, and seek the protection of Nato. The real question is why we didn't isolate Russia culturally and economically earlier. Not why countries strove hard to meet Nato's requirements for membership. Some have succeeded, some, like Ukraine not. Yeltsin was right. However, he didn't foresee Putin. Putin changed everything. Looking to blame shift this disaster onto Nato is to weaken our resolve. The fault lies squarely and solely with Putin.
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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 09 Mar 22 9.39pm | |
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^^^^Just to lighten the mood^^^^
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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