When you consider our history in a fair and objective way, it's strange that people bemoan a drop in ethics or morality that 'now' stands out amongst others. Perhaps it was never quite how they perceived it to be, just what injustices they were unbothered by.

But not only that; the bubble has so monumentally burst for some that they go too far the other way. Sure we have our faults as a nation (as does the West as a whole), but these comparisons or even apparent preferences for Russia and Russian media by a few are seriously out there. The need to constantly look for an attack angle against the West because it doesn't quite fit their personal ideal.

Russia's behaviour in this invasion is barbaric, and their propaganda routinely and provably laughable beyond anything we serve up. Our intelligence has been second to none and bang on in terms of predicting Russia's actions, compared to their words. They've pumped out farce after farce in order to blame Ukraine for their invasion and civilian deaths, and Nato for arming those under siege - and those becoming detached from their own society here unfortunately are starting to lap it up.

The response from the West has been measured and understandable all things considered. Leaving those Russia wish to blot out to the wolves, and incessantly finding fault with the attacked, emboldens this inhumanity. There isn't some principled point at which Russia would simply stop if we behaved as they demand. Of course other countries would be next. If the stance is 'I believe they will stop prior to NATO countries, so don't care about the consequences for others and am happy to let them get on with it' then at least saying that is honest, rather than to demonise doing the right thing to the point where the unthinkable becomes near mundane.

Edited by BlueJay (28 Apr 2022 11.04pm)

The moment Putin invaded Ukraine, we entered a new phase of an undeclared Cold War which has existed for years. You don't think Russian interference in western elections is not a form of information warfare? His action in Ukraine was just a step too far and the west has resolved to do all it can, short of active involvement, to make sure it now stops there.

I don't see any bias in our media, other than that I would expect from any country. A bias towards a national identity, and the standards it holds, seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Russia is the aggressor in all of this and Ukraine the victim. We are supporting the victim and assisting them to be able to mount an effective defence. Our media are not going to assist Russia with their propaganda. If Russia started to show the same images we see, then maybe we would show theirs, and then let all the people decide where the whole truth lies.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (28 Apr 2022 10.32pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

"Israeli diplomat, ex-ambassador to Kyiv Joel Lyon has released information from the Israeli Interior Ministry that the citizens of this country should leave the territory of Transnistria as soon as possible."

Who said Russian intelligence is 'dumb'? I'm sure behind the scene realities are very different from the consistently provable nonsense spouted by the Kremlin.

You're not anti western though. You just haunt threads crafting posts contrary to the stances of those you dislike. You clearly don't even have a genuine view on this topic. Embarrassing really.

This invasion has not gone to plan for Russia. Most will agree that regardless of politics or position. Nobody even said that Russia is 'dumb', rather that in what is clearly a dictatorship yes men saying what you want to hear to remain and the opinionated and frank often go (one way or another). As result Putin is in his 'bubble' and from grid locked convoys to the sinking of the Moskva and bogged down months long warfare none of this was in the script. Nor was, I expect, the unified international opposition and response. Hence many toys out of the pram moments from Moscow at other nations behaviour - while they themselves bomb civilian areas.

If you're so disbelieving of 'western media' that you feel the invasion and civilian deaths do not yet constitute 'war crimes' and may all be 'propaganda' then you're clearly delusionally 'swayed' yourself and another who places little stock in what can be seen, deduced and readily understood during the invasion and bombing of Ukraine By Putin's Russia.

To save pages of pointlessness and to avoid taking the bait -> that's it.

i get sceptical , even of our own media images and footage. When you see images of tanks and civilians, with a western reporters commentary on what is happening,..."the tank is running over children from an orphanage",....or "the tank is surrendering", or whatever. If i view some of the footage with the sound turned off, the images are meaningless , or could be interpreted a thousand different ways.
See what the meeja has done to me ?

I now have a Ukrainian fella working on a different shift to me at the factory where i work. Very obese guy, and seems nice enough and hard-working. He speaks very little English, but the only thing i know is that the town where he lived in Ukraine was smashed to bits, and he got out 3 weeks ago.

I disengage, I turn the page.

I heard some well-regarded economists on the radio last week. They were discussing inflation and faltering supply issues in the UK.
They stated unanimously that the UK economy was showing signs of failure well before Covid and Ukraine started, and that both Covid and Ukraine were being used as a cover for Government economic failures.
Maybe their opinion was biased.

I disengage, I turn the page.