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Why Can't The French Stop Them Coming?

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kuge Flag Peckham 12 Sep 21 7.12pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

The fact that the previous assessments proved that many were. It's a cyclical thing. The chance that none are illegal is minute surely.

What percentage had genuine asylum claims? Even if by 'many' you mean the majority there will still be a significant number with valid asylum claims.

 

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 Sep 21 7.17pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by kuge

Thank God someone has read something.

I agree with you that not much is applicable to contemporary situations. As you will know direct historic parallels is rarely of any great value. Also, I agree that the final fall of the Eastern Roman empire in 1453 was the event of greater significance. And the idea that the Catholic Church is a vestigial extension of the RE, well that is indeed a stretch.

Can you tell me what primary and secondary sources you have looked at?

The revisionism that is led by Peter Heather is not as revolutionary or radical as it at first appears. Essentially he agrees with the majority of the causes put forward by Gibbon but he wishes to downplay the emphasis Gibbon placed on Christianity and focus on internal insurgencies. As I have said before to interpret this as immigration is rather confusing as it was the Romans that were the migrant/invaders. From recollection, (I read it some time ago), Heather writes about the massive storage of labour in the final years of the Roman empire as a contributory factor to the collapse. This suggests that the lack of immigration was as important and an excess.

It's amusing to think that the Roman Empire was brought down by trousers. Perhaps even farcical...

I am sure that there are already academics researching the French ban on burkas.


It would be false of me to claim to be a Roman expert. One module I looked at in College was the Holy Roman Empire. Quite an unusual entity, that probably has more relevance to European life today. However, I came across some of the Roman research questions whilst reading sources that weren't entirely about Rome. I came across quite a bit about the topic of what happened to the Roman Army?
Reading into it for my own amusement (bit of personal knowledge so I could at least know some Roman stuff), I came across a microcosm of the initial border and integration argument. The research seemed to indicate that much if the so-called Roman army was indeed 'Barbarian' at that time. It fell apart and later leaders tended to be Barbarian (although often claiming Roman heritage and taking Roman names). However, no one could really pinpoint an exact end to the Roman army or fully explain it. Much research has been done on the subject.
As for primary sources, I edited my friend's PhD and then book on a later Emperor. It's funny as I can't even remember the Emperor's name right now. I have the book on my phone but am not inclined to read it! Obviously, being a PhD he had extensive primary sources and many translations. I had originally read his entire literature review where he had interrogated contemporary sources. You can probably tell, as I say, I am not a Roman scholar but I'm just using my second hand knowledge as it were. I can't really give you exact references without looking. I also don't want to give my friend away - as I think his is the most extensive study of a particular emperor. You could probably find it just from what I've said. I suppose one aspect is that we are likely as much (probably far more likely) Barbarian than Roman, so in this case we're the naughty ones sacking Rome perhaps.
I also studied Early Christianity extensively but ended up an Early Modern Scholar. I've written on it all, some barely known, some not that good but the odd interesting piece.
As for the trousers and the Burkas, it's not really my point but nuance isn't as easy as one might think in posts. Clearly it's a cultural clash - in the Roman case one that seems to have not worked for Roman traditions ultimately. I doubt any would get funding for the theoretical framework I would be interested in. However, it could perhaps be framed as a diversity and gender study? Definite dollar signs there.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 12 Sep 21 7.40pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by kuge

This would be amusing if it were not so sad. A three-paragraph (and I am being generous here) synopsis of the Wikipedia page on the Roman Empire does not convince anyone that you know the first thing about the subject. The idea that this banal idiotic simplification of 1000 years of history has any value is absurd. Comparing it to contemporary geopolitical situations is ludicrous.


write something intelligent there mate, surprise us all.

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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BlueJay Flag UK 12 Sep 21 7.45pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I have no problem with being challenged.

In fact, I love it when people are demonstrably wrong but persist in posting out of some desperate desire to save face.


There appears to be no scope in your view of being challenged where you consider that you're actually ever wrong about anything? Or even that more than one interpretation may be valid.


Edited by BlueJay (12 Sep 2021 8.27pm)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Sep 21 8.13pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You have to smile at the one eyed perspective.

When it's opinions they don't like, it's apparently dark and something they must 'challenge' or if somehow more than one person is agreeing it is somehow a 'circle jerk'.....though you see them happily joining in on....I suppose what must amount to their own 'circle jerks' on threads where it's situations/opinions they approve of.

If we ignore them, do you think they will go away?

I really can't be bothered to respond to such dimwittery.

Their goal is to disrupt the thread by turning it into a slanging match and get it locked.

And all because they want to rewrite history that they feel threatened by.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 12 Sep 21 8.21pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

It would be false of me to claim to be a Roman expert. One module I looked at in College was the Holy Roman Empire. Quite an unusual entity, that probably has more relevance to European life today. However, I came across some of the Roman research questions whilst reading sources that weren't entirely about Rome. I came across quite a bit about the topic of what happened to the Roman Army?
Reading into it for my own amusement (bit of personal knowledge so I could at least know some Roman stuff), I came across a microcosm of the initial border and integration argument. The research seemed to indicate that much if the so-called Roman army was indeed 'Barbarian' at that time. It fell apart and later leaders tended to be Barbarian (although often claiming Roman heritage and taking Roman names). However, no one could really pinpoint an exact end to the Roman army or fully explain it. Much research has been done on the subject.
As for primary sources, I edited my friend's PhD and then book on a later Emperor. It's funny as I can't even remember the Emperor's name right now. I have the book on my phone but am not inclined to read it! Obviously, being a PhD he had extensive primary sources and many translations. I had originally read his entire literature review where he had interrogated contemporary sources. You can probably tell, as I say, I am not a Roman scholar but I'm just using my second hand knowledge as it were. I can't really give you exact references without looking. I also don't want to give my friend away - as I think his is the most extensive study of a particular emperor. You could probably find it just from what I've said. I suppose one aspect is that we are likely as much (probably far more likely) Barbarian than Roman, so in this case we're the naughty ones sacking Rome perhaps.
I also studied Early Christianity extensively but ended up an Early Modern Scholar. I've written on it all, some barely known, some not that good but the odd interesting piece.
As for the trousers and the Burkas, it's not really my point but nuance isn't as easy as one might think in posts. Clearly it's a cultural clash - in the Roman case one that seems to have not worked for Roman traditions ultimately. I doubt any would get funding for the theoretical framework I would be interested in. However, it could perhaps be framed as a diversity and gender study? Definite dollar signs there.

Interesting to hear the contrasts in the takes you two have. Read with interest .

 

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DanH Flag SW2 12 Sep 21 8.23pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If we ignore them, do you think they will go away?

I really can't be bothered to respond to such dimwittery.

Their goal is to disrupt the thread by turning it into a slanging match and get it locked.

And all because they want to rewrite history that they feel threatened by.

He’s posted intelligent and evidenced replies to challenge what you have stated and you’ve thrown your toys out the pram because you don’t like being made to look a dimwit. You’ve also been rude and offensive to him.

You three stooges who follow each other around these boards aggressively backing each other up just don’t like it when you’re held to account by someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 12 Sep 21 8.25pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If we ignore them, do you think they will go away?

I really can't be bothered to respond to such dimwittery.

Their goal is to disrupt the thread by turning it into a slanging match and get it locked.

And all because they want to rewrite history that they feel threatened by.

I certainly think we should be a bit more choosey who we regularly respond to.....Spicy Orange thinks we are one and the same, which is amusing though I do like the idea that I'm writing to myself here.....it's all a devious plan Spicy!

I think there was some useful dialogue in this thread but it certainly does get a bit tetchy as it goes on.

I'm not a fan of locked threads and so I've rather the gloves were kept on instead of the switch blades as much as possible.....though I'm guilty of the odd slash myself.

I'm always interested in your take mate. And we have some excellent posts from what is apparently regarded as some sort of evil cabal insidiously taking over Hol and demoralising good people from posting.

Strange, how this wasn't a problem when Hol had majority lefty posters.


Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Sep 2021 8.31pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 12 Sep 21 8.37pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

He’s posted intelligent and evidenced replies to challenge what you have stated and you’ve thrown your toys out the pram because you don’t like being made to look a dimwit. You’ve also been rude and offensive to him.

You three stooges who follow each other around these boards aggressively backing each other up just don’t like it when you’re held to account by someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Strange, but then again, probably what I'd expect from someone who thinks that critical race theory is a balanced view of the west.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Sep 21 9.08pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

He’s posted intelligent and evidenced replies to challenge what you have stated and you’ve thrown your toys out the pram because you don’t like being made to look a dimwit. You’ve also been rude and offensive to him.

You three stooges who follow each other around these boards aggressively backing each other up just don’t like it when you’re held to account by someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

They are not evidenced at all.

The evidence that migration into the Roman Empire and the use of foreign mercenaries in the legions were key factors in the downfall of Rome are available for anyone to see.
If you stopped trying to stir things up and actually read about it for yourself, you would see this.

But of course, we all know that you are not interested in reality.

 

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kuge Flag Peckham 12 Sep 21 10.16pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If we ignore them, do you think they will go away?

I really can't be bothered to respond to such dimwittery.

Their goal is to disrupt the thread by turning it into a slanging match and get it locked.

And all because they want to rewrite history that they feel threatened by.

Not likely to go away.
Happy if you don't respond as it gives me back my free time.
No desire to disrupt just to present a counterargument.
All of the slanging has come from you.
It is you that appears threatened.
I feel very comfortable that the analogy you were trying to make as regards immigration into Britain and the collapse of the Roman Empire is fallacious and not supported by evidence.


 

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kuge Flag Peckham 12 Sep 21 10.28pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

write something intelligent there mate, surprise us all.


You really aren't helping yourself here, are you?

I am waiting for you to present an argument that is coherent or erudite.
As I was saying your few sentences scraped off the internet exhibit no understanding or cognisance of what is universally acknowledged to be a very complex subject. Especially in relation to the idea posited by others that this is relevant to immigration to Britain today.

 

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