High immigration levels prevent 'cohesive society'

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High immigration levels prevent 'cohesive society'

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Feb 16 10.17pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 In 2014 48% of migrants to the UK came from the EU. Which means that 52% didn't. Leaving the EU won't affect the latter (much) and add that to my earlier ageing population assertions you can surely see that the problems with regard to population will still be with us even with an exit. This idea that stopping EU migrants will cure our ills is just plain wrong. It will make a very small dent. Definitely not worth leaving such a powerhouse for. We will be cutting off our noses to spite our face by doing it. I agree. But it will improve the situation. It's not all pr nothing.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Feb 16 10.17pm

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Originally posted by Kermit8

In 2014 48% of migrants to the UK came from the EU. Which means that 52% didn't. Leaving the EU won't affect the latter (much) and add that to my earlier ageing population assertions you can surely see that the problems with regard to population will still be with us even with an exit.

This idea that stopping EU migrants will cure our ills is just plain wrong. It will make a very small dent. Definitely not worth leaving such a powerhouse for. We will be cutting off our noses to spite our face by doing it.

I agree. But it will improve the situation. It's not all pr nothing.

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Ketteridge Brighton 24 Feb 16 10.23pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I think the ship is not being controlled by the captain but by some people in Brussels. In other words, we do not have control over economic migration to our own country. I will be interested to see if we leave the EU and then if government still dances to the tune of business or actually cuts European immigration as the majority of the population want. Sorry since when has Brussels dictated non eu migration, two thirds of immigrants come from non eu countries,two thirds of immigrants are 'controlled'. The majority of immigrants are here because we have invited them in. One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A
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Ketteridge

Brighton 24 Feb 16 10.23pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think the ship is not being controlled by the captain but by some people in Brussels. In other words, we do not have control over economic migration to our own country. I will be interested to see if we leave the EU and then if government still dances to the tune of business or actually cuts European immigration as the majority of the population want.

Sorry since when has Brussels dictated non eu migration, two thirds of immigrants come from non eu countries,two thirds of immigrants are 'controlled'. The majority of immigrants are here because we have invited them in.

One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Feb 16 10.32pm
Originally posted by Ketteridge Sorry since when has Brussels dictated non eu migration, two thirds of immigrants come from non eu countries,two thirds of immigrants are 'controlled'. The majority of immigrants are here because we have invited them in. I am aware of that. You seem to think that separating facts changes the bigger picture. In any case "controlled" is a relative and subjective term.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Feb 16 10.32pm

Originally posted by Ketteridge

I am aware of that.

You seem to think that separating facts changes the bigger picture. In any case "controlled" is a relative and subjective term.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 Feb 16 10.35pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I am aware of that. You seem to think that separating facts changes the bigger picture. In any case "controlled" is a relative and subjective term. See my previous post...
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 24 Feb 16 10.35pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I am aware of that.

You seem to think that separating facts changes the bigger picture. In any case "controlled" is a relative and subjective term.

See my previous post...

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crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 24 Feb 16 10.38pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger As I have told you before, change has not been a constant. I have demonstrated this with facts. The biggest change has been in the last 10 years. You clearly don't want to believe it for whatever reason. As for trends not continuing. 90% of the worlds population will live in Africa,Asia and Indonesia within 200 years and the World population will have increased to as much as 13 billion by 2100. You think that Europe and the US with much lower population density won't be a magnet for economic migrants alone? As for migrant integration, I see little evidence that that is happening at a satisfactory pace. And as I have told you before, change IS constant and will continue to be, some people will come to Britain and some others will leave, birth rate will rise and fall over time. I haven't seen you demonstrate anything in particular, except that you don't want to accept that you may be wrong. It is quite possible, if not probable, that Africa, Asia and other so-called third world areas will become self-sufficient over the next 20-50 years. Africa and Asia and South America have plenty of natural resources. They will also have a young workforce who will become better educated and dynamic, while Europe's population will be ageing and a drag on economic performance. Europe (and the US) will no longer seen as the land of milk and honey, so your grandchildren should have no such worries, other than how to look after you and the rest of your ageing generation. I used to be immortal
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crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 24 Feb 16 10.38pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As I have told you before, change has not been a constant. I have demonstrated this with facts. The biggest change has been in the last 10 years. You clearly don't want to believe it for whatever reason.

As for trends not continuing. 90% of the worlds population will live in Africa,Asia and Indonesia within 200 years and the World population will have increased to as much as 13 billion by 2100. You think that Europe and the US with much lower population density won't be a magnet for economic migrants alone?
As for migrant integration, I see little evidence that that is happening at a satisfactory pace.

And as I have told you before, change IS constant and will continue to be, some people will come to Britain and some others will leave, birth rate will rise and fall over time. I haven't seen you demonstrate anything in particular, except that you don't want to accept that you may be wrong.

It is quite possible, if not probable, that Africa, Asia and other so-called third world areas will become self-sufficient over the next 20-50 years. Africa and Asia and South America have plenty of natural resources. They will also have a young workforce who will become better educated and dynamic, while Europe's population will be ageing and a drag on economic performance.

Europe (and the US) will no longer seen as the land of milk and honey, so your grandchildren should have no such worries, other than how to look after you and the rest of your ageing generation.

I used to be immortal

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Feb 16 10.39pm
Originally posted by nickgusset See my previous post... I do not believe that measures are stringent enough. Now I'm retiring for the night I'm tired. Tin hats on for the Rotherham fallout tomorrow.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Feb 16 10.39pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

See my previous post...

I do not believe that measures are stringent enough.

Now I'm retiring for the night I'm tired.

Tin hats on for the Rotherham fallout tomorrow.

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 25 Feb 16 9.27am
Originally posted by crystal balls Well many invaders came and stayed, Romans Vikings and Normans especially! These groups formed what Britain is today, laws, customs, language, monarchy etc. etc. And because many British cities were centres of trade, people from all over the world came and stayed as well. Even in Shakespeare's time London was a multi-cultural city [Link] and other outward-looking cities were multi-cultural as well, Bristol, Liverpool, Glasgow etc. The main places where the natives have a "you're not from round these parts" have tended to be in rural places and small towns, where they do things like hang monkeys for be Napoleon's spies. London was multi-cultural before New York even existed as a city. No it wasnt, unless you call the slave trade being multicultural "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 25 Feb 16 9.27am

Originally posted by crystal balls

Well many invaders came and stayed, Romans Vikings and Normans especially! These groups formed what Britain is today, laws, customs, language, monarchy etc. etc. And because many British cities were centres of trade, people from all over the world came and stayed as well. Even in Shakespeare's time London was a multi-cultural city

[Link]

and other outward-looking cities were multi-cultural as well, Bristol, Liverpool, Glasgow etc.

The main places where the natives have a "you're not from round these parts" have tended to be in rural places and small towns, where they do things like hang monkeys for be Napoleon's spies.

London was multi-cultural before New York even existed as a city.

No it wasnt, unless you call the slave trade being multicultural

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 25 Feb 16 9.42am
Originally posted by crystal balls If any country is invaded by force of arms they, of course, have the right to fight against the invader. I'm not sure that is relevant to immigrants, though, is it? Many differing peoples have been coming peacefully to the UK for thousands of years, some settle here, some don't. Britain is an amalgam of many different peoples, and always has been. The key part of that is "over Thousands of years" meaning the society hasnt had to deal with a massive influx of differing cultures over (historically speaking) a few seconds. It was a gradual process, and actually by peoples whose own culture wasn't that dissimilar to ours, as a result they were assimalated to the whole. What is happening now is vast swathes of immigrants arriving in the Country expecting to be able to crack living there life as if they were still in thier country of origin, whilst taking all the benefits their adopted country of residence has to offer. Simply put, it is too many, too quickly, wanting to remain too different. No society as a whole will cope with that well. Edited by dannyh (25 Feb 2016 9.43am) "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 25 Feb 16 9.42am

Originally posted by crystal balls

If any country is invaded by force of arms they, of course, have the right to fight against the invader. I'm not sure that is relevant to immigrants, though, is it?

Many differing peoples have been coming peacefully to the UK for thousands of years, some settle here, some don't. Britain is an amalgam of many different peoples, and always has been.

The key part of that is "over Thousands of years" meaning the society hasnt had to deal with a massive influx of differing cultures over (historically speaking) a few seconds.

It was a gradual process, and actually by peoples whose own culture wasn't that dissimilar to ours, as a result they were assimalated to the whole.

What is happening now is vast swathes of immigrants arriving in the Country expecting to be able to crack living there life as if they were still in thier country of origin, whilst taking all the benefits their adopted country of residence has to offer.

Simply put, it is too many, too quickly, wanting to remain too different.

No society as a whole will cope with that well.

Edited by dannyh (25 Feb 2016 9.43am)

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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chris123 hove actually 25 Feb 16 10.23am
Originally posted by dannyh No it wasnt, unless you call the slave trade being multicultural The first Jewish settlements were in the 11th century and if you look at the Crossrail project they've been digging up bones of varying ethnicities since the Romans paid a visit.
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chris123

hove actually 25 Feb 16 10.23am

Originally posted by dannyh

No it wasnt, unless you call the slave trade being multicultural

The first Jewish settlements were in the 11th century and if you look at the Crossrail project they've been digging up bones of varying ethnicities since the Romans paid a visit.

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crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 25 Feb 16 12.21pm
Originally posted by dannyh No it wasnt, unless you call the slave trade being multicultural Technically, slaves were illegal within the UK by the time the "slave trade" (as that term is understood) came into being, (Elizabethan era). Obviously the Romans had slaves. If you read the link I posted you may learn something. But really Britain was multi-cultural even before the Roman invasion, and especially after. Most of the Roman legions were assembled from peoples throughout the empire and the majority of the legions in the UK were Spanish, but there were Nubians and other Africans among the forces manning Hadrian's Wall. The idea that Britons were some sort of racially homogeneous group is far removed from fact. Just about every modern English person will have DNA from several nationalities, and not just Europeans. I used to be immortal
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crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 25 Feb 16 12.21pm

Originally posted by dannyh

No it wasnt, unless you call the slave trade being multicultural

Technically, slaves were illegal within the UK by the time the "slave trade" (as that term is understood) came into being, (Elizabethan era). Obviously the Romans had slaves. If you read the link I posted you may learn something.

But really Britain was multi-cultural even before the Roman invasion, and especially after. Most of the Roman legions were assembled from peoples throughout the empire and the majority of the legions in the UK were Spanish, but there were Nubians and other Africans among the forces manning Hadrian's Wall.

The idea that Britons were some sort of racially homogeneous group is far removed from fact. Just about every modern English person will have DNA from several nationalities, and not just Europeans.

I used to be immortal

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crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 25 Feb 16 12.26pm
Originally posted by dannyh The key part of that is "over Thousands of years" meaning the society hasnt had to deal with a massive influx of differing cultures over (historically speaking) a few seconds. It was a gradual process, and actually by peoples whose own culture wasn't that dissimilar to ours, as a result they were assimalated to the whole. What is happening now is vast swathes of immigrants arriving in the Country expecting to be able to crack living there life as if they were still in thier country of origin, whilst taking all the benefits their adopted country of residence has to offer. Simply put, it is too many, too quickly, wanting to remain too different. No society as a whole will cope with that well. Edited by dannyh (25 Feb 2016 9.43am) In terms of numbers of invaders comparative to numbers of the existing population, there have been several cases of similar if not greater numbers proportionally. And in terms of differences of cultures, to a Britain suffering Saxon invaders, the degree of culture shock may have seemed as different to them as Polish or eastern Europeans seem to you, perhaps. I used to be immortal
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crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 25 Feb 16 12.26pm

Originally posted by dannyh

The key part of that is "over Thousands of years" meaning the society hasnt had to deal with a massive influx of differing cultures over (historically speaking) a few seconds.

It was a gradual process, and actually by peoples whose own culture wasn't that dissimilar to ours, as a result they were assimalated to the whole.

Simply put, it is too many, too quickly, wanting to remain too different.

No society as a whole will cope with that well.

Edited by dannyh (25 Feb 2016 9.43am)

In terms of numbers of invaders comparative to numbers of the existing population, there have been several cases of similar if not greater numbers proportionally.

And in terms of differences of cultures, to a Britain suffering Saxon invaders, the degree of culture shock may have seemed as different to them as Polish or eastern Europeans seem to you, perhaps.

I used to be immortal

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 25 Feb 16 1.02pm
Originally posted by dannyh Simply put, it is too many, too quickly, wanting to remain too different. No society as a whole will cope with that well. Edited by dannyh (25 Feb 2016 9.43am) I can't disagree with this. Fair point well made. The problem is our rulers don't give a flying one about "society" or the majority of their citizens. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 25 Feb 16 1.02pm