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Russell Brand - class warrior or complete bell end

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TUX Flag redhill 04 Dec 14 9.08pm Send a Private Message to TUX Add TUX as a friend

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 8.49pm

Quote TUX at 04 Dec 2014 8.18pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 4.36pm

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 4.13pm


But are the views of the likes of Cameron and co truly a cut above? Or is it more relevant and acceptable for posh boys pushing their own agendas through to have a voice rather than someone with a bit of passion from a working class background?


Ha ha ha!

Now who's judging people on the personal and not on the substance of their views!?

The views of Cameron *as a person* are only of value if they have proper substance.

The views of Cameron as *prime minister* are frankly more relevant than those of some bbc three celebrity. He is leader of a governing party which received over 10 million votes at the last election.

Which is my entire point about Russell Brand. Either you have a legitimate platform for your political views - eg, several million votes for the organisation you lead. Or you have a particularly insightful, scholarly or intellectually substantial take on the world (eg, Thomas Piketty).

Brand has neither.


I figured that highlighting many issues that the 'established media' for some reason avoid(?) would be a legitimate platform? Or do you just not like the cut of his jib and can't see past the bravado and take the time to listen to the message?

Jeez, I just realised that I'm talking to a chap who believes 'Call me Dave' and his several million votes automatically means that he is worth listening to. What next, he has 'insight and a substantial intellect'?
Cough cough splutter.



Edited by TUX (04 Dec 2014 8.44pm)


Thanks, you saved me writing this. If the comeback is "David Cameron represents those voting for him" well we already know that's not true, hence people jumping ship to UKIP in their droves. Much like Lib Dem voters haven't been represented by their party and so on..

This guy just loves his binary way of looking at the world "You're either this, or your that". Ermm no, it's a bit more complex than that mate.

Edited by sanitycheck (04 Dec 2014 8.51pm)

You're spending your time talking about a man who has no power, therefore no effect on your life. Life is only 'complex' because we as a whole (the majority) have allowed it to be.
I'm interested on your stance on those 'with power' that regularly take the piss out of you and how you feel about that. Or do you just ignore it because it's better that way?


 
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sanitycheck Flag 04 Dec 14 9.25pm

Quote TUX at 04 Dec 2014 9.08pm

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 8.49pm

Quote TUX at 04 Dec 2014 8.18pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 4.36pm

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 4.13pm


But are the views of the likes of Cameron and co truly a cut above? Or is it more relevant and acceptable for posh boys pushing their own agendas through to have a voice rather than someone with a bit of passion from a working class background?


Ha ha ha!

Now who's judging people on the personal and not on the substance of their views!?

The views of Cameron *as a person* are only of value if they have proper substance.

The views of Cameron as *prime minister* are frankly more relevant than those of some bbc three celebrity. He is leader of a governing party which received over 10 million votes at the last election.

Which is my entire point about Russell Brand. Either you have a legitimate platform for your political views - eg, several million votes for the organisation you lead. Or you have a particularly insightful, scholarly or intellectually substantial take on the world (eg, Thomas Piketty).

Brand has neither.


I figured that highlighting many issues that the 'established media' for some reason avoid(?) would be a legitimate platform? Or do you just not like the cut of his jib and can't see past the bravado and take the time to listen to the message?

Jeez, I just realised that I'm talking to a chap who believes 'Call me Dave' and his several million votes automatically means that he is worth listening to. What next, he has 'insight and a substantial intellect'?
Cough cough splutter.



Edited by TUX (04 Dec 2014 8.44pm)


Thanks, you saved me writing this. If the comeback is "David Cameron represents those voting for him" well we already know that's not true, hence people jumping ship to UKIP in their droves. Much like Lib Dem voters haven't been represented by their party and so on..

This guy just loves his binary way of looking at the world "You're either this, or your that". Ermm no, it's a bit more complex than that mate.

Edited by sanitycheck (04 Dec 2014 8.51pm)

You're spending your time talking about a man who has no power, therefore no effect on your life. Life is only 'complex' because we as a whole (the majority) have allowed it to be.
I'm interested on your stance on those 'with power' that regularly take the piss out of you and how you feel about that. Or do you just ignore it because it's better that way?


Sorry, by 'this guy' I'm talking about Johnny Eagles and his repeated "you're either A or B" idea of viewing things here, when the reality of how people contribute ideas to society is more complex. I just didn't have the motivation to look up his name at the time. Clearly I should've done .

I agree with everything you're saying. Very rightminded.


 
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TUX Flag redhill 04 Dec 14 9.44pm Send a Private Message to TUX Add TUX as a friend

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 9.25pm

Quote TUX at 04 Dec 2014 9.08pm

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 8.49pm

Quote TUX at 04 Dec 2014 8.18pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 4.36pm

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 4.13pm


But are the views of the likes of Cameron and co truly a cut above? Or is it more relevant and acceptable for posh boys pushing their own agendas through to have a voice rather than someone with a bit of passion from a working class background?


Ha ha ha!

Now who's judging people on the personal and not on the substance of their views!?

The views of Cameron *as a person* are only of value if they have proper substance.

The views of Cameron as *prime minister* are frankly more relevant than those of some bbc three celebrity. He is leader of a governing party which received over 10 million votes at the last election.

Which is my entire point about Russell Brand. Either you have a legitimate platform for your political views - eg, several million votes for the organisation you lead. Or you have a particularly insightful, scholarly or intellectually substantial take on the world (eg, Thomas Piketty).

Brand has neither.


I figured that highlighting many issues that the 'established media' for some reason avoid(?) would be a legitimate platform? Or do you just not like the cut of his jib and can't see past the bravado and take the time to listen to the message?

Jeez, I just realised that I'm talking to a chap who believes 'Call me Dave' and his several million votes automatically means that he is worth listening to. What next, he has 'insight and a substantial intellect'?
Cough cough splutter.



Edited by TUX (04 Dec 2014 8.44pm)


Thanks, you saved me writing this. If the comeback is "David Cameron represents those voting for him" well we already know that's not true, hence people jumping ship to UKIP in their droves. Much like Lib Dem voters haven't been represented by their party and so on..

This guy just loves his binary way of looking at the world "You're either this, or your that". Ermm no, it's a bit more complex than that mate.

Edited by sanitycheck (04 Dec 2014 8.51pm)

You're spending your time talking about a man who has no power, therefore no effect on your life. Life is only 'complex' because we as a whole (the majority) have allowed it to be.
I'm interested on your stance on those 'with power' that regularly take the piss out of you and how you feel about that. Or do you just ignore it because it's better that way?


Sorry, by 'this guy' I'm talking about Johnny Eagles and his repeated "you're either A or B" idea of viewing things here, when the reality of how people contribute ideas to society is more complex. I just didn't have the motivation to look up his name at the time. Clearly I should've done .

I agree with everything you're saying. Very rightminded.


No probs bud. Let's both be glad that we're not 'Johnny'


 
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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 04 Dec 14 10.43pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

I find it very amusing that you preach at people to focus on Brand's message not his personality, yet you ignore most of what I say and and justify doing so by characterising me as someone who has a "binary" view of the world (whatever that's supposed to mean.)

I also find it amusing that you think Brand represents views ''not covered by the media". All the media has done recently is cover his views! To the point of tedium!

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 04 Dec 14 10.50pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 8.49pm

Quote TUX at 04 Dec 2014 8.18pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 4.36pm

Quote sanitycheck at 04 Dec 2014 4.13pm


But are the views of the likes of Cameron and co truly a cut above? Or is it more relevant and acceptable for posh boys pushing their own agendas through to have a voice rather than someone with a bit of passion from a working class background?


Ha ha ha!

Now who's judging people on the personal and not on the substance of their views!?

The views of Cameron *as a person* are only of value if they have proper substance.

The views of Cameron as *prime minister* are frankly more relevant than those of some bbc three celebrity. He is leader of a governing party which received over 10 million votes at the last election.

Which is my entire point about Russell Brand. Either you have a legitimate platform for your political views - eg, several million votes for the organisation you lead. Or you have a particularly insightful, scholarly or intellectually substantial take on the world (eg, Thomas Piketty).

Brand has neither.


I figured that highlighting many issues that the 'established media' for some reason avoid(?) would be a legitimate platform? Or do you just not like the cut of his jib and can't see past the bravado and take the time to listen to the message?

Jeez, I just realised that I'm talking to a chap who believes 'Call me Dave' and his several million votes automatically means that he is worth listening to. What next, he has 'insight and a substantial intellect'?
Cough cough splutter.



Edited by TUX (04 Dec 2014 8.44pm)


Thanks, you saved me writing this. If the comeback is "David Cameron represents those voting for him" well we already know that's not true, hence people jumping ship to UKIP in their droves. Much like Lib Dem voters haven't been represented by their party and so on..

This guy just loves his binary way of looking at the world "You're either this, or you're that". Ermm no, it's a bit more complex than that mate.


Edited by sanitycheck (04 Dec 2014 9.08pm)

This makes me think you're really rather dim.

Let me try and explain the point again using simple language.

Cameron is leader of the Tories. You might disagree with him. You might not vote for his party. But 10 million people did vote for them. In a democracy that means the political arguments he makes matter because he REPRESENTS the views of lots of people. That is how parliamentary democracy works.

The same goes for the leaders of other parties, for trade unions, for employers associations and so on.

Please explain to me what platform Russell Brand has. Who does he represent? His Twitter followers?


Edited by Johnny Eagles (04 Dec 2014 10.53pm)

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 04 Dec 14 10.52pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

double post

Edited by Johnny Eagles (04 Dec 2014 10.54pm)

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 04 Dec 14 10.53pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

double post

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 04 Dec 14 11.00pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 10.43pm

I find it very amusing that you preach at people to focus on Brand's message not his personality, yet you ignore most of what I say and and justify doing so by characterising me as someone who has a "binary" view of the world (whatever that's supposed to mean.)

I also find it amusing that you think Brand represents views ''not covered by the media". All the media has done recently is cover his views! To the point of tedium!


I'd argue his views aren't actually covered. I haven't read much about anarcho syndicalism, the fact that british apples are sent to south africa to be polished then sent back to Britain so that someone can profit from it. I haven't read much about the dangers of fracking in the Murdoch press, I haven't read much about secret courts or people being detained but not being told why? All are things put forard in revolution.

I'd argue that Brand is being 'coated' (sorry Jel ) in the press because he is bringing to light all of these things.

Read the book Johnny. It is somewhat wordy in places, but is actually well argued and does give food for thought.

 
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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 04 Dec 14 11.00pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 10.53pm

double post


This was actually a triple post Johnny

 
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 05 Dec 14 2.01am Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

"Every revolution was first a thought in one man's mind" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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matt_himself Flag Matataland 05 Dec 14 5.15am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

I find it ironic and funny that lefties all think that Brand is some intellectual colossus and Gandhi figure rolled into one, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, yet mock Farage, who is streets ahead of Brand intellectually and as a political figure.

Anyone who takes Brand seriously as a political leader is either deluded, grasping at straws or so desperately in need of a figurehead they will follow any gobs***e with a bunch a student ideals who publishes them in a nice, coffee table format.

 

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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sanitycheck Flag 05 Dec 14 8.53am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 04 Dec 2014 10.43pm

I find it very amusing that you preach at people to focus on Brand's message not his personality, yet you ignore most of what I say and and justify doing so by characterising me as someone who has a "binary" view of the world (whatever that's supposed to mean.)

By binary view I'm simply stating that repeatedly here you have forced your own thinking by saying well 'you're either A or B' and dismissing people when they don't fall into categories you've cobbled together, when again it's more complex. The validity of views and whether people listen to them sadly isn't down to whatever arbitrary template Johnny from the internet places over them.

Quote
I also find it amusing that you think Brand represents views ''not covered by the media". All the media has done recently is cover his views! To the point of tedium!

Nick covered this above . You clearly don't even know about much of what he's put forward, just what you read in your redtop or what you tell yourself a 'lefty' must believe. Either buy the book and actually have a valid point of view or just keep making yourself angry for no reason.

 
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