Offshore Wind Farms....Hellish or What?

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Offshore Wind Farms....Hellish or What?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Jul 24 8.40am
Originally posted by cryrst I have made this point myself. When the earth gets the hump it will let us know. No amount of reduced this or over production of that will stop it. Yes cut down where you can which I know has happened and does happen but don’t forsake the Beauty and reason for being. The earth has already got the hump and has let us know. Some are listening. Others, apparently, have decided not to. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Jul 24 8.40am

Originally posted by cryrst

I have made this point myself. When the earth gets the hump it will let us know. No amount of reduced this or over production of that will stop it. Yes cut down where you can which I know has happened and does happen but don’t forsake the Beauty and reason for being.

The earth has already got the hump and has let us know. Some are listening. Others, apparently, have decided not to.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Jul 24 8.43am
Originally posted by cryrst I have made this point myself. When the earth gets the hump it will let us know. No amount of reduced this or over production of that will stop it. Yes cut down where you can which I know has happened and does happen but don’t forsake the Beauty and reason for being. There are many examples of the planet ‘recovering’ when we change human behaviour - to suggest there isn’t much of a correlation or that nothing we can do is going to make much difference is not supported by evidence and just feels like a way to justify an unwillingness to change. By the way, do you not think all of the flooding, fires and more extreme weather recorded in recent years might be the earth ‘getting the hump and letting us know’?
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Jul 24 8.43am

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Originally posted by cryrst

There are many examples of the planet ‘recovering’ when we change human behaviour - to suggest there isn’t much of a correlation or that nothing we can do is going to make much difference is not supported by evidence and just feels like a way to justify an unwillingness to change.

By the way, do you not think all of the flooding, fires and more extreme weather recorded in recent years might be the earth ‘getting the hump and letting us know’?

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palace99 New Mills 26 Jul 24 9.14am
personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead. Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie. Onshore is clearly cheaper than offshore wind turbines as the cost of putting them up is considerably cheaper - there are very few floating turbines at sea, most are buried many metres under the seas bed. However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided. I believe as with most things a compromise is the way forward. As an example France have made it a law that all carparks with a roof put solar on them. Seems sensible as these are flat roofs and ugly buildings. Why don't we do the same? Maybe all new build house could have solar fitted on roofs as standard. On motorways on the layby you could have either solar or turbines installed here. Loads of space and pretty ugly roads with no houses impacted. Personally i think people (us) have to realise that things cannot continue as now and there will be an impact, possibly a cost in the short term. The nimby attitude clearly doesn't help, especially when many don't offer an alternative. When utility prices went sky high after the Ukraine invasion i suspect must people would have been happy if we didn't need to buy so much gas from other countries.
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palace99

New Mills 26 Jul 24 9.14am

personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead.

Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie.

However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided.

Personally i think people (us) have to realise that things cannot continue as now and there will be an impact, possibly a cost in the short term. The nimby attitude clearly doesn't help, especially when many don't offer an alternative. When utility prices went sky high after the Ukraine invasion i suspect must people would have been happy if we didn't need to buy so much gas from other countries.

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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 26 Jul 24 9.44am
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow There are many examples of the planet ‘recovering’ when we change human behaviour - to suggest there isn’t much of a correlation or that nothing we can do is going to make much difference is not supported by evidence and just feels like a way to justify an unwillingness to change. By the way, do you not think all of the flooding, fires and more extreme weather recorded in recent years might be the earth ‘getting the hump and letting us know’? The planet has 'recovered' many times, mostly before the Industrial Revolution and certainly before the human race was prevalent. Those recoveries are still going on that react to the Earth's own natural changes. They seem to have been ignored and it's only you or I eating a beefburger or driving our ICE vehicle that is the problem (because those things can be taxed whereas the natural counterbalancing effects can't). hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.
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Behind Enemy Lines

Sussex 26 Jul 24 9.44am

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

By the way, do you not think all of the flooding, fires and more extreme weather recorded in recent years might be the earth ‘getting the hump and letting us know’?

The planet has 'recovered' many times, mostly before the Industrial Revolution and certainly before the human race was prevalent. Those recoveries are still going on that react to the Earth's own natural changes. They seem to have been ignored and it's only you or I eating a beefburger or driving our ICE vehicle that is the problem (because those things can be taxed whereas the natural counterbalancing effects can't).

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 26 Jul 24 10.46am
Originally posted by palace99 personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead. Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie. Onshore is clearly cheaper than offshore wind turbines as the cost of putting them up is considerably cheaper - there are very few floating turbines at sea, most are buried many metres under the seas bed. However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided. I believe as with most things a compromise is the way forward. As an example France have made it a law that all carparks with a roof put solar on them. Seems sensible as these are flat roofs and ugly buildings. Why don't we do the same? Maybe all new build house could have solar fitted on roofs as standard. On motorways on the layby you could have either solar or turbines installed here. Loads of space and pretty ugly roads with no houses impacted. Personally i think people (us) have to realise that things cannot continue as now and there will be an impact, possibly a cost in the short term. The nimby attitude clearly doesn't help, especially when many don't offer an alternative. When utility prices went sky high after the Ukraine invasion i suspect must people would have been happy if we didn't need to buy so much gas from other countries. Just for interest sake, where is the nearest turbine to where you live? Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 26 Jul 24 10.46am

Originally posted by palace99

personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead.

Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie.

However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided.

Just for interest sake, where is the nearest turbine to where you live?

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 26 Jul 24 10.57am
Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines The planet has 'recovered' many times, mostly before the Industrial Revolution and certainly before the human race was prevalent. Those recoveries are still going on that react to the Earth's own natural changes. They seem to have been ignored and it's only you or I eating a beefburger or driving our ICE vehicle that is the problem (because those things can be taxed whereas the natural counterbalancing effects can't). Humans will as a species will only occupy a sliver of the planet's history, that's how things work. The planet is estimated at 4.5 billion years or so. Dinosaurs 165 million years of existence so that's 0.04% of the timeline, if humans last another 200,00 years it will be 0.00001%. Edited by HKOwen (26 Jul 2024 11.02am) Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 26 Jul 24 10.57am

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

Humans will as a species will only occupy a sliver of the planet's history, that's how things work.

The planet is estimated at 4.5 billion years or so.

Dinosaurs 165 million years of existence so that's 0.04% of the timeline, if humans last another 200,00 years it will be 0.00001%.

Edited by HKOwen (26 Jul 2024 11.02am)

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palace chick South Croydon 26 Jul 24 11.03am
Originally posted by palace99 personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead. Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie. Onshore is clearly cheaper than offshore wind turbines as the cost of putting them up is considerably cheaper - there are very few floating turbines at sea, most are buried many metres under the seas bed. B However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided. I believe as with most things a compromise is the way forward. As an example France have made it a law that all carparks with a roof put solar on them. Seems sensible as these are flat roofs and ugly buildings. Why don't we do the same? Maybe all new build house could have solar fitted on roofs as standard. On motorways on the layby you could have either solar or turbines installed here. Loads of space and pretty ugly roads with no houses impacted. Personally i think people (us) have to realise that things cannot continue as now and there will be an impact, possibly a cost in the short term. The nimby attitude clearly doesn't help, especially when many don't offer an alternative. When utility prices went sky high after the Ukraine invasion i suspect must people would have been happy if we didn't need to buy so much gas from other countries. Good post and I don’t disagree with you. Not sure us townies need worry so much as I can’t see my neighbour sticking one up in the garden :-) I’m all for solars and so on being added to structures even if a bit unsightly if it helps us being more green?
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palace chick

South Croydon 26 Jul 24 11.03am

Originally posted by palace99

personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead.

Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie.

Onshore is clearly cheaper than offshore wind turbines as the cost of putting them up is considerably cheaper - there are very few floating turbines at sea, most are buried many metres under the seas bed.
B
However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided.

Good post and I don’t disagree with you. Not sure us townies need worry so much as I can’t see my neighbour sticking one up in the garden :-) I’m all for solars and so on being added to structures even if a bit unsightly if it helps us being more green?

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The Dolphin 26 Jul 24 11.14am
Ugly things - better out at sea than on land for me. We give too many grants to those that supply, fit and run them. They will only last 20-25 years apparently. Carbon emissions to make them, 70 tons of lubricant to maintain them every year, carbon emissions to transport them and erect them, emissions to take them down and do the whole thing again. The list is endless - nothing is as green as it appears when you get into the detail.
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The Dolphin

26 Jul 24 11.14am

Ugly things - better out at sea than on land for me.
We give too many grants to those that supply, fit and run them.
They will only last 20-25 years apparently.
Carbon emissions to make them, 70 tons of lubricant to maintain them every year, carbon emissions to transport them and erect them, emissions to take them down and do the whole thing again.
The list is endless - nothing is as green as it appears when you get into the detail.

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 26 Jul 24 11.22am
Originally posted by YT I think the obsession with wind turbines is misguided in that they will neither save the planet nor lead to cheaper energy (the latter being what Labour keep saying). However I've no objection to them on aesthetic grounds. I'm in France at the moment where there are hundreds of them and they do t offend me at all. The most offensive sight at the seaside is fat people showing off acres of horrible flesh. They do produce a lot of wind though Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 26 Jul 24 11.22am

Originally posted by YT

I think the obsession with wind turbines is misguided in that they will neither save the planet nor lead to cheaper energy (the latter being what Labour keep saying). However I've no objection to them on aesthetic grounds. I'm in France at the moment where there are hundreds of them and they do t offend me at all. The most offensive sight at the seaside is fat people showing off acres of horrible flesh.

They do produce a lot of wind though

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Jul 24 11.37am
Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines The planet has 'recovered' many times, mostly before the Industrial Revolution and certainly before the human race was prevalent. Those recoveries are still going on that react to the Earth's own natural changes. They seem to have been ignored and it's only you or I eating a beefburger or driving our ICE vehicle that is the problem (because those things can be taxed whereas the natural counterbalancing effects can't). That's great, but it does nothing to change the reality than we can and have reversed some human impact on the environment, and should continue to do so.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Jul 24 11.37am

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

That's great, but it does nothing to change the reality than we can and have reversed some human impact on the environment, and should continue to do so.

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palace99 New Mills 26 Jul 24 11.39am
Originally posted by HKOwen Just for interest sake, where is the nearest turbine to where you live? a bit of a childish response, especially as you appear to live in HK. I live in quite a rural area on the edge of the peak district with view from my house of kinder scout. As new onshore has essentially been banned in the UK for almost a decade there hasn't been much progress during that period but i think the largest big one near me is in Rochdale - see below. There is a lot of farm land near me and quite a few farmers have the odd turbine - in fact many moan they are not allowed to put up more as they are happy to rent their land out and can still use it for livestock etc. This is what happened with mobile phone masts incidentally - mainly put on farmers fields as it's cheap. I know they are smaller, but i rarely hear people moan about unsightly phone masts. [Link]
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palace99

New Mills 26 Jul 24 11.39am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Just for interest sake, where is the nearest turbine to where you live?

a bit of a childish response, especially as you appear to live in HK.

I live in quite a rural area on the edge of the peak district with view from my house of kinder scout.

As new onshore has essentially been banned in the UK for almost a decade there hasn't been much progress during that period but i think the largest big one near me is in Rochdale - see below.

There is a lot of farm land near me and quite a few farmers have the odd turbine - in fact many moan they are not allowed to put up more as they are happy to rent their land out and can still use it for livestock etc. This is what happened with mobile phone masts incidentally - mainly put on farmers fields as it's cheap. I know they are smaller, but i rarely hear people moan about unsightly phone masts.
[Link]

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 26 Jul 24 11.40am
Originally posted by palace99 personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead. Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie. Onshore is clearly cheaper than offshore wind turbines as the cost of putting them up is considerably cheaper - there are very few floating turbines at sea, most are buried many metres under the seas bed. However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided. I believe as with most things a compromise is the way forward. As an example France have made it a law that all carparks with a roof put solar on them. Seems sensible as these are flat roofs and ugly buildings. Why don't we do the same? Maybe all new build house could have solar fitted on roofs as standard. On motorways on the layby you could have either solar or turbines installed here. Loads of space and pretty ugly roads with no houses impacted. Personally i think people (us) have to realise that things cannot continue as now and there will be an impact, possibly a cost in the short term. The nimby attitude clearly doesn't help, especially when many don't offer an alternative. When utility prices went sky high after the Ukraine invasion i suspect must people would have been happy if we didn't need to buy so much gas from other countries. This is the crux of it - people don't like change and don't like feeling like they're being told what to do, so the instinctive reaction is to reject it. I just spent the weekend on the west coast of Ireland which seemed to have turbines everywhere - they did nothing to detract from the beauty of the place.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 26 Jul 24 11.40am

Originally posted by palace99

personally i quite like turbines and don't regard them as ugly at all. However, this nimby attitude just highlights the challenges ahead.

Let's look at some facts. First green energy is cheaper and cleaner than generating electricity, either by nuclear or burning gas to generate the leccie.

However, with onshore there are limited places where they can best be erected as not all areas are windy so the fear of having them everywhere is just misguided.

I believe as with most things a compromise is the way forward. As an example France have made it a law that all carparks with a roof put solar on them. Seems sensible as these are flat roofs and ugly buildings. Why don't we do the same?
Maybe all new build house could have solar fitted on roofs as standard.
On motorways on the layby you could have either solar or turbines installed here. Loads of space and pretty ugly roads with no houses impacted.

Personally i think people (us) have to realise that things cannot continue as now and there will be an impact, possibly a cost in the short term. The nimby attitude clearly doesn't help, especially when many don't offer an alternative. When utility prices went sky high after the Ukraine invasion i suspect must people would have been happy if we didn't need to buy so much gas from other countries.

This is the crux of it - people don't like change and don't like feeling like they're being told what to do, so the instinctive reaction is to reject it.

I just spent the weekend on the west coast of Ireland which seemed to have turbines everywhere - they did nothing to detract from the beauty of the place.

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