You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Going forward
November 21 2024 5.06pm

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Going forward

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 2 of 2 << First< 1 2

  

Davepalace707 Flag Northumberland 21 Jan 24 11.56am Send a Private Message to Davepalace707 Add Davepalace707 as a friend

Originally posted by fish mitten

Leeds, Leicester and Southampton tried option 3 last season and didn't have as much success as we did with it.

Board has to invest in new players. They failed to invest in the correct players in the summer as well as the two windows before that.

Personally whilst the football may be dire under Roy, we take a real gamble if we change manager and don't bring in several new players (perhaps 2 permanents and 2 loans - for positions we need)

I don't think that will happen. At best 1 loan in. I think SP will sack Roy, appoint Paddy on an interim basis as it will be the cheap option and whether we stay up will be dependent if players can stay fit, and Olise and Eze can produce a few bits of magic.

Will also be dependent upon three teams being worse and/or significant points deductions for Forest and Everton again.

Personally if we get new players in and keep Roy I reckon we have a 80% chance of survival. Sack him and get no one in I reckon 50% at best.

You’ve missed out the other alternative scenario - don’t get new players in and keep Roy. Which is where we are now and it ain’t working. Olise is clearly key to picking up some points. If he’s playing it doesn’t matter who the manager is. The defence is a worry now. Can’t be any worse under another manager.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Eaglecoops Flag CR3 21 Jan 24 12.07pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by CpfcWeTrust1

I'll call this post for what it is, ridiculous observation.

You can't just buy players, they have to want to actually come to the club and for a certain wage and to wsnt to play for a manager. Lordy, if it was as easy as buying something off the shelf it'd make our lives easier. As for the goalkeeper thing, yes it was a silly purchase but the irony is we did need a goalkeeper in the end as Sam.J had an injury and Guaita had buggered off. DF has done a decent job and Franca hasn't actually been given a chance unless the teams already lost or hes played out of position. Same for Ahemada.

You've picked such a basic principal of player acquisition that I find it baffling. I mean you have to be able to retain those players also, Olise being a prime example. You can buy all the great players but keeping them is a battle and fans will have to face the fact that Palace needs to sell assets to buy more assets(in terms of players.) I highly doubt DF has not bothered with enquiring about players, there's a whole scouting team behind it.

If you were a player, would you be enticed by the stadium, manager, type of tactics used, team position?

I highly doubt it.

So, what has it got going for it? High wages which affect us buying more players, a chance to prove yourself and use Palace as a stepping stone.

Ridiculous comments yourself. So how come we have been able to attract Johnstone, Guehi, Anderson, Olise, Eze and Doucoure to the club in the first place? The very model that you describe as basic has been followed by Brighton for the last few years, identifying under the radar players, attracting them to the club, bringing them on and turning big profits on them.

It ain’t rocket science ffs but you obviously think it is.

I haven’t even mentioned the onward sale of players which is of course a vital part of keeping finances on an even keel and I have advocated previously that selling one star player per year and replacing with a couple of decent improving youngsters is vital for a club our size. The very thing that you see as impossible to achieve has been successfully achieved by many clubs over the years.

I find your intransigence to the simple idea of buying low and selling for more baffling myself. It is how all forms of investment work and you are either good at it or you are not. I would say we are pretty average and we certainly need to improve on the sales side of things.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
CpfcWeTrust1 Flag 21 Jan 24 12.36pm Send a Private Message to CpfcWeTrust1 Add CpfcWeTrust1 as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Ridiculous comments yourself. So how come we have been able to attract Johnstone, Guehi, Anderson, Olise, Eze and Doucoure to the club in the first place? The very model that you describe as basic has been followed by Brighton for the last few years, identifying under the radar players, attracting them to the club, bringing them on and turning big profits on them.

It ain’t rocket science ffs but you obviously think it is.

I haven’t even mentioned the onward sale of players which is of course a vital part of keeping finances on an even keel and I have advocated previously that selling one star player per year and replacing with a couple of decent improving youngsters is vital for a club our size. The very thing that you see as impossible to achieve has been successfully achieved by many clubs over the years.

I find your intransigence to the simple idea of buying low and selling for more baffling myself. It is how all forms of investment work and you are either good at it or you are not. I would say we are pretty average and we certainly need to improve on the sales side of things.

Ok let's go through the list of our players first before hitting your other sweeping statements.

Guehi - youth of Chelsea wasn't getting any game time
Anderson - Fulham on loan from Lyon who Textor owns.
Olise - at Reading on a buyout clause. - again not proven at top level
Doucoure - from Lens
Eze - Wycombe Wanderers - Not sure how you feel he was a known quantity at Wycombe Wanderers.
None are from top tier and proven at the time.

No top tier there much like Franca. It's a hit or miss.

Brighton -they were lucky enough to have a scouting system that found and sold players for a decent profit within the first year to buy in and sell more players. We have sold a MASSIVE - Wan Bissaka and who else? Wan Bissaka covered a loan we previously had. So you want Palace to buy these players you've named which were already somewhat known entities which you think we missed out on, disregarding another factors apart from they are mid to low costing. At the same time you think Franca (an unknown player of ability) was a bad transaction. Brighton buy in quite a few players that don't make it, they've been fortunate that Chrlsea have bought loads off them. Not to mention that comparing Brighton to cpfc is a whole different subjective topic but small observation would show they have a giant stadium, in a great affluent area that's also close enough to London if the player wants to live in the capital. Simon Jordan has also mentioned the differences between the clubs recently.

How do you feel Palace can address areas of the squad like Brighton if we don't sell any of the good players that make up the squad?

To be like Brighton, Palace will need to sell some of them and most likely Olise and Guehi.

DF isn't always going to hit the nail on the head with buying in good players.

If its that easy to do, why aren't you a chief scout like Dougie? Seeing as it's easy to buy low and sell high?

Safe to say it isn't that easy.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Dubai Eagle Flag 21 Jan 24 12.49pm Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

Not to detract from the rest of your post but we bought Eze from QPR (Where he did have a loan spell at Wycombe Wanderers but returned to feature in the QPR first team) so I guess in many respects it would be akin to discovering Olise'.

Originally posted by CpfcWeTrust1

Ok let's go through the list of our players first before hitting your other sweeping statements.

Guehi - youth of Chelsea wasn't getting any game time
Anderson - Fulham on loan from Lyon who Textor owns.
Olise - at Reading on a buyout clause. - again not proven at top level
Doucoure - from Lens
Eze - Wycombe Wanderers - Not sure how you feel he was a known quantity at Wycombe Wanderers.
None are from top tier and proven at the time.

No top tier there much like Franca. It's a hit or miss.

Brighton -they were lucky enough to have a scouting system that found and sold players for a decent profit within the first year to buy in and sell more players. We have sold a MASSIVE - Wan Bissaka and who else? Wan Bissaka covered a loan we previously had. So you want Palace to buy these players you've named which were already somewhat known entities which you think we missed out on, disregarding another factors apart from they are mid to low costing. At the same time you think Franca (an unknown player of ability) was a bad transaction. Brighton buy in quite a few players that don't make it, they've been fortunate that Chrlsea have bought loads off them. Not to mention that comparing Brighton to cpfc is a whole different subjective topic but small observation would show they have a giant stadium, in a great affluent area that's also close enough to London if the player wants to live in the capital. Simon Jordan has also mentioned the differences between the clubs recently.

How do you feel Palace can address areas of the squad like Brighton if we don't sell any of the good players that make up the squad?

To be like Brighton, Palace will need to sell some of them and most likely Olise and Guehi.

DF isn't always going to hit the nail on the head with buying in good players.

If its that easy to do, why aren't you a chief scout like Dougie? Seeing as it's easy to buy low and sell high?

Safe to say it isn't that easy.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
CpfcWeTrust1 Flag 21 Jan 24 12.56pm Send a Private Message to CpfcWeTrust1 Add CpfcWeTrust1 as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

Not to detract from the rest of your post but we bought Eze from QPR (Where he did have a loan spell at Wycombe Wanderers but returned to feature in the QPR first team) so I guess in many respects it would be akin to discovering Olise'.

I appreciate the correct information. I wasn't sure, so I made a mediocre search for information.


 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Eaglecoops Flag CR3 21 Jan 24 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by CpfcWeTrust1

Ok let's go through the list of our players first before hitting your other sweeping statements.

Guehi - youth of Chelsea wasn't getting any game time
Anderson - Fulham on loan from Lyon who Textor owns.
Olise - at Reading on a buyout clause. - again not proven at top level
Doucoure - from Lens
Eze - Wycombe Wanderers - Not sure how you feel he was a known quantity at Wycombe Wanderers.
None are from top tier and proven at the time.

No top tier there much like Franca. It's a hit or miss.

Brighton -they were lucky enough to have a scouting system that found and sold players for a decent profit within the first year to buy in and sell more players. We have sold a MASSIVE - Wan Bissaka and who else? Wan Bissaka covered a loan we previously had. So you want Palace to buy these players you've named which were already somewhat known entities which you think we missed out on, disregarding another factors apart from they are mid to low costing. At the same time you think Franca (an unknown player of ability) was a bad transaction. Brighton buy in quite a few players that don't make it, they've been fortunate that Chrlsea have bought loads off them. Not to mention that comparing Brighton to cpfc is a whole different subjective topic but small observation would show they have a giant stadium, in a great affluent area that's also close enough to London if the player wants to live in the capital. Simon Jordan has also mentioned the differences between the clubs recently.

How do you feel Palace can address areas of the squad like Brighton if we don't sell any of the good players that make up the squad?

To be like Brighton, Palace will need to sell some of them and most likely Olise and Guehi.

DF isn't always going to hit the nail on the head with buying in good players.

If its that easy to do, why aren't you a chief scout like Dougie? Seeing as it's easy to buy low and sell high?

Safe to say it isn't that easy.

Jeez, you’re arguing with yourself here. All those points you are making about those players totally proves my point that we have identified players at low value and they are now high value. They are not the only players in the world that are undervalued and it is Dougies job to continue to identify them.

You are arguing points that I didn’t even make. I’ve always advocated selling to buy, but not selling to line shareholders pockets.

Your last comment is a typical straw man argument that gets peddled on here far too often and which I’ll choose to treat with the contempt it deserves.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
MrRobbo Flag Chaldon 21 Jan 24 1.22pm Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by CpfcWeTrust1

Ok let's go through the list of our players first before hitting your other sweeping statements.

Guehi - youth of Chelsea wasn't getting any game time
Anderson - Fulham on loan from Lyon who Textor owns.
Olise - at Reading on a buyout clause. - again not proven at top level
Doucoure - from Lens
Eze - Wycombe Wanderers - Not sure how you feel he was a known quantity at Wycombe Wanderers.
None are from top tier and proven at the time.

No top tier there much like Franca. It's a hit or miss.

Brighton -they were lucky enough to have a scouting system that found and sold players for a decent profit within the first year to buy in and sell more players. We have sold a MASSIVE - Wan Bissaka and who else? Wan Bissaka covered a loan we previously had. So you want Palace to buy these players you've named which were already somewhat known entities which you think we missed out on, disregarding another factors apart from they are mid to low costing. At the same time you think Franca (an unknown player of ability) was a bad transaction. Brighton buy in quite a few players that don't make it, they've been fortunate that Chrlsea have bought loads off them. Not to mention that comparing Brighton to cpfc is a whole different subjective topic but small observation would show they have a giant stadium, in a great affluent area that's also close enough to London if the player wants to live in the capital. Simon Jordan has also mentioned the differences between the clubs recently.

How do you feel Palace can address areas of the squad like Brighton if we don't sell any of the good players that make up the squad?

To be like Brighton, Palace will need to sell some of them and most likely Olise and Guehi.

DF isn't always going to hit the nail on the head with buying in good players.

If its that easy to do, why aren't you a chief scout like Dougie? Seeing as it's easy to buy low and sell high?

Safe to say it isn't that easy.

Wow, those mentioned are worlds apart form Franca.

Guehi - Over 50 champ appearances, Won U17 WC, in team of the WC, runer up in the U17 Euros

Anderson - 31 prem appearances,110 appearance across Europe's top leagues, full international

Olise - PFA team of the year, Champ young player of the season, champ team of hte season

Doucoure - full international, 4 full seasons in League 1

Eze - Know your background better, clearly from QPR. Was their player of the season and in the PFA team of the year

They were all calculated, not huge risk in any of them really.


 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
southnorwoodhill Flag 21 Jan 24 1.25pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Jeez, you’re arguing with yourself here. All those points you are making about those players totally proves my point that we have identified players at low value and they are now high value. They are not the only players in the world that are undervalued and it is Dougies job to continue to identify them.

You are arguing points that I didn’t even make. I’ve always advocated selling to buy, but not selling to line shareholders pockets.

Your last comment is a typical straw man argument that gets peddled on here far too often and which I’ll choose to treat with the contempt it deserves.

True.

One of our main problems is that we have hardly ever raised finance through the sale of players, money to re-invest in the playing side. Parish has offered many a past it duffer another year's contract to save the effort and fees of actually getting out there and scout some fresh blood. These players munch up funds through exorbitant salaries, have no resale value, and offer very little on the pitch. I think it's to do with making us look as though we have a full squad of 25.
His modus operandi I always found a bit suspect and now we're paying the price. Perhaps he had this fantasy that many of the U21s would make the breakthrough all at the same time and save his sorry arse...

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 21 Jan 24 1.27pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Ridiculous comments yourself. So how come we have been able to attract Johnstone, Guehi, Anderson, Olise, Eze and Doucoure to the club in the first place? The very model that you describe as basic has been followed by Brighton for the last few years, identifying under the radar players, attracting them to the club, bringing them on and turning big profits on them.

It ain’t rocket science ffs but you obviously think it is.

I haven’t even mentioned the onward sale of players which is of course a vital part of keeping finances on an even keel and I have advocated previously that selling one star player per year and replacing with a couple of decent improving youngsters is vital for a club our size. The very thing that you see as impossible to achieve has been successfully achieved by many clubs over the years.

I find your intransigence to the simple idea of buying low and selling for more baffling myself. It is how all forms of investment work and you are either good at it or you are not. I would say we are pretty average and we certainly need to improve on the sales side of things.

For sure.

I think our problem is that having signed some excellent young players such as Guehi, Andersen, Olise and Eze, in an ideal world we would build a team around them. That could be from Academy players developed through to first team, some existing squad players and some prudent, experienced signings.

But we haven't done that. If you accept that financially that hasn't been possible then a solution is to raise funds by selling.And we haven't done that either.

With the inevitable Brighton comparisons, let's start at the top, Bloom v. Our Board.

Bloom with huge personal wealth. His data driven formula has been a big success. Prior to that they were buying relatively expensive flops from the Dutch league. Bloom has surrounded himself with experts - CEO Paul Barber recruited from Spurs. Dan Ashworth now at Newcastle as examples. They have provided the expertise upon which Bloom has been able to translate into the winning formula that we are currently seeing.

At Palace, Parish is the CEO. That's where he has positioned himself. Best man for the job ? Well you can't argue with his record but how much challenge and fresh insight / different perspective does he get in that position ? While Bloom recruited experts Parish recruited former players. Best men for the job ? I honestly don't know. With Harris and Blitzer seemingly passive, only Textor has challenged Parish and look how that's playing out. ( that's not to say I support Textor btw ).

So I guess my conclusion is that I think a fresh perspective is needed at the top. I'm not saying I want Parish gone, I am saying that he needs some expert help. I don't think he's getting that sat next to Mark Bright.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
CpfcWeTrust1 Flag 21 Jan 24 1.28pm Send a Private Message to CpfcWeTrust1 Add CpfcWeTrust1 as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Jeez, you’re arguing with yourself here. All those points you are making about those players totally proves my point that we have identified players at low value and they are now high value. They are not the only players in the world that are undervalued and it is Dougies job to continue to identify them.

You are arguing points that I didn’t even make. I’ve always advocated selling to buy, but not selling to line shareholders pockets.

Your last comment is a typical straw man argument that gets peddled on here far too often and which I’ll choose to treat with the contempt it deserves.

Stick to football manager, that's about as far as your linear thinking goes.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Eaglecoops Flag CR3 21 Jan 24 1.57pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by CpfcWeTrust1

Stick to football manager, that's about as far as your linear thinking goes.

What’s that? I used to play subbuteo, is it the same?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Eaglecoops Flag CR3 21 Jan 24 2.12pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

True.

One of our main problems is that we have hardly ever raised finance through the sale of players, money to re-invest in the playing side. Parish has offered many a past it duffer another year's contract to save the effort and fees of actually getting out there and scout some fresh blood. These players munch up funds through exorbitant salaries, have no resale value, and offer very little on the pitch. I think it's to do with making us look as though we have a full squad of 25.
His modus operandi I always found a bit suspect and now we're paying the price. Perhaps he had this fantasy that many of the U21s would make the breakthrough all at the same time and save his sorry arse...

I agree, I think this is because we have always survived right on the edge with a lot of our squads made up of players that were at the end of their careers or only borderline capable of playing at this level hence no real future value.

We have finally managed to get a spine of players bought at x total value and now worth a much higher total value. I am all for getting maximum fees for our players and using that to reinvest in the squad. For instance the sale of Olise and Edouard or Mateta would almost certainly fund a completely new front 3 which a manager can work with. I also think we could afford to lose Guehi and use that money to bring in say Edwards, Munoz and a second left back and still have money in the bank.

Will our current board allow this or just want to sell players and pocket the money? I guess we’ll find out.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 2 of 2 << First< 1 2

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Going forward