Trouble At T' MIll?

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Trouble At T' MIll?

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jan 23 9.54am
Originally posted by Palacesince64 I’m not clear what Harris and Blitzer or indeed Textor have done since they bought into Palace. H&B invested £50 million and Textor £87.5 million. I confess I’ve not studied the annual accounts to understand where that money went. Presumably some to the 4 owners who gave up shares to let them in? It was said selling AWB paid for the Academy. No sign of the new stand and precious little spent on players. It seems our “investors” are a mini version of the Manure lot. Buy shares, sit on them and do nothing for the club. Certainly not the sugar daddies some clubs have! In terms of Harris and Blitzer, they became part of a joint-ownership structure in De 2015 and since then our Net Spend on transfers has been approx £160 Mill. Since the departure of Mr Hodgson the 'Net Spend' has been in access of £100 Mill.
Alert a moderator to this post

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jan 23 9.54am

Originally posted by Palacesince64

I’m not clear what Harris and Blitzer or indeed Textor have done since they bought into Palace. H&B invested £50 million and Textor £87.5 million. I confess I’ve not studied the annual accounts to understand where that money went. Presumably some to the 4 owners who gave up shares to let them in? It was said selling AWB paid for the Academy. No sign of the new stand and precious little spent on players. It seems our “investors” are a mini version of the Manure lot. Buy shares, sit on them and do nothing for the club. Certainly not the sugar daddies some clubs have!

In terms of Harris and Blitzer, they became part of a joint-ownership structure in De 2015 and since then our Net Spend on transfers has been approx £160 Mill.
Since the departure of Mr Hodgson the 'Net Spend' has been in access of £100 Mill.

Alert a moderator to this post

Croydon-Trucker 27 Jan 23 10.09am
Originally posted by sydtheeagle I think that's misreading the room. Parish isn't obsessed with loan players; he's simply doing his job. To all intents and purposes, Parish is an employee of Harris and Blitzer, who've made him CEO of Palace. As with the head of any company, his job is to carry out the wishes of his board/owners. If Palace's owners say "there is no budget for signing new players but you can have a couple of loans" then Parish's job is to bring in a couple of loans. It's pretty much that simple. No CEO is going to go out and risk his income (and Parish makes a pretty penny from Palace) by publicly disagreeing with his bosses. I think there's a good chance that personally, Parish would like to see us sign players for the long term and probably believes we should. But it's not his decision to make. A lot of " ifs and i thinks , with no proof , or links to back up what you are saying. I know it is a well educated oppinion . He is not an employee of the Americans he is a share holder also . There has been no public statement saying we have no budget nor that there has been any disagreement between the board . If i was a betting man . i would put my money on Parrish being the obstical when it comes to the recruitment of players , he has said it himself he doesnt like paying up extortionate fees to agents and paying players thousands of pounds a week for something they love doing , and i can understand that as he is a self made man and had to work hard for his wealth . The truth of the matter is that if we cant sign players that we need now to stay comfortably in this league , how are we going to sign and replace the 11-12 players that are out of contract too old or move on in the summer . Its all just Smoke and Mirrors .
Alert a moderator to this post

Croydon-Trucker

27 Jan 23 10.09am

Send a Private Message to Croydon-Trucker

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

I think that's misreading the room. Parish isn't obsessed with loan players; he's simply doing his job.

To all intents and purposes, Parish is an employee of Harris and Blitzer, who've made him CEO of Palace. As with the head of any company, his job is to carry out the wishes of his board/owners.

If Palace's owners say "there is no budget for signing new players but you can have a couple of loans" then Parish's job is to bring in a couple of loans. It's pretty much that simple. No CEO is going to go out and risk his income (and Parish makes a pretty penny from Palace) by publicly disagreeing with his bosses.

I think there's a good chance that personally, Parish would like to see us sign players for the long term and probably believes we should. But it's not his decision to make.

A lot of " ifs and i thinks , with no proof , or links to back up what you are saying. I know it is a well educated oppinion . He is not an employee of the Americans he is a share holder also . There has been no public statement saying we have no budget nor that there has been any disagreement between the board . If i was a betting man . i would put my money on Parrish being the obstical when it comes to the recruitment of players , he has said it himself he doesnt like paying up extortionate fees to agents and paying players thousands of pounds a week for something they love doing , and i can understand that as he is a self made man and had to work hard for his wealth . The truth of the matter is that if we cant sign players that we need now to stay comfortably in this league , how are we going to sign and replace the 11-12 players that are out of contract too old or move on in the summer . Its all just Smoke and Mirrors .

Alert a moderator to this post

Eaglehamster Storrington 27 Jan 23 10.32am
Originally posted by Badger11 This cheered me up from the Charlton fan site, they believe these figures are mostly accurate. It's a different world down there Charlton Athletic 2023 - Player Wages Charlton Athletic have a total of 66 players in their home squad. The highest earning player in the squad is Scott Fraser earning £7,600 per week. Charlton Athletic play in the Sky Bet League One, the third division of mens professional football in England. The teams total wage bill is: £5,148,000 per year • £99,000 per week Chuks £6400 per week Rak Sakyi £6100 Stockley £6100 Kirk £5400 Dobson £5200 Payne £5100 Sessegnon £4600 Mc Grandles £4400 O’Connell £4300 Clare £3600 Lavelle £3600 Wilf earns more than the entire playing staff. So the least paid shown is on £180K pa. Not too bad for a division 3 player. In my world that is! I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.
Alert a moderator to this post

Eaglehamster

Storrington 27 Jan 23 10.32am

Originally posted by Badger11

This cheered me up from the Charlton fan site, they believe these figures are mostly accurate.

It's a different world down there

Charlton Athletic 2023 -
Player Wages
Charlton Athletic have a total of 66 players in their home squad. The highest earning player in the squad is Scott Fraser earning £7,600 per week.
Charlton Athletic play in the Sky Bet League One, the third division of mens professional football in England.
The teams total wage bill is:
£5,148,000 per year
• £99,000 per week

Chuks £6400 per week
Rak Sakyi £6100
Stockley £6100
Kirk £5400
Dobson £5200
Payne £5100
Sessegnon £4600
Mc Grandles £4400
O’Connell £4300
Clare £3600
Lavelle £3600

Wilf earns more than the entire playing staff.

So the least paid shown is on £180K pa. Not too bad for a division 3 player. In my world that is!

I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.

Alert a moderator to this post

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jan 23 10.44am
Supporters of course,in general, are not 'Au Fait' with off-pitch matters, the 'Rumour Mill' whirs and conclusions are drawn which can bear no resemblance to the reality.
Alert a moderator to this post

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jan 23 10.44am

Supporters of course,in general, are not 'Au Fait' with off-pitch matters, the 'Rumour Mill' whirs and conclusions are drawn which can bear no resemblance to the reality.

Alert a moderator to this post

YT Oxford 27 Jan 23 10.44am
Originally posted by Eaglecoops Originally posted by YT This is the reality of modern football isn't it? Basically all the revenue is paid to the players. Every fan therefore wants someone rich to turn up and buy great players for them to watch, so that their club does better than other clubs who have done the same thing but not quite so well. These are often the same fans who openly express on fan forums how much they despise rich people![/quote] Ahhh, there is nothing like a back handed insult to your fellow fans. No need for that sentence, it doesn’t add to your point. I disagree. Hypocrisy should always be called out. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
Alert a moderator to this post

Oxford 27 Jan 23 10.44am

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Originally posted by YT

This is the reality of modern football isn't it? Basically all the revenue is paid to the players. Every fan therefore wants someone rich to turn up and buy great players for them to watch, so that their club does better than other clubs who have done the same thing but not quite so well. These are often the same fans who openly express on fan forums how much they despise rich people![/quote]

Ahhh, there is nothing like a back handed insult to your fellow fans. No need for that sentence, it doesn’t add to your point.

I disagree. Hypocrisy should always be called out.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

Alert a moderator to this post

sydtheeagle England 27 Jan 23 11.39am
Originally posted by Palacesince64 I’m not clear what Harris and Blitzer or indeed Textor have done since they bought into Palace. In essence, as I've said before, there is no free cash flow generated by a football club. The principal reason for this is wages. In extreme cases such as Everton, wages consume over 90% of revenues but they're typically around 80% regardless. So there's no money to be made from operations (although unscrupulous owners still find ways to take cash out of the business). With that in mind, what owners (Harris and Blitzer, or any other owner) does when they acquire a football club is to seek to increase its value over time so that while they may not turn a profit year-on-year, they can sell the asset for more than it was worth when they bought it over a period of years and thus make a profit when they leave. This is achieved through things like building academies and stadiums (or stands). If the academy produces another Wilf/AWB/etc. that will generate revenue that increases the club's worth. More clearly, the Old Stand rebuild with its improved executive facilities, etc. will see matchday and thus annual revenues increase significantly. With its revenue streams larger, the club's valuation will be higher and the price the club will be worth when Blitzer and Harris sell will be greater. That's where their profit lies. Let's be clear, building the academy and re-building the Old Stand are good for CPFC but that's not why Harris and Blitzer are supporting those projects. They're investing in them because doing so significantly increases their RoI. Either way, ultimately, the answer to the question "what have Harris and Blitzer done for Palace" lies fairly and squarely in the capital expenditure projects they've funded. As a Palace supporter, you will probably say "I want a lot more from my owners than that. I want a commitment on the pitch too, as well as off it". And that's why our fans in the main don't like Harris and Blitzer, even though in a general sense they are doing a reasonably good job of stewarding the club in the right overall direction. Edited by sydtheeagle (27 Jan 2023 11.41am) Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.
Alert a moderator to this post

sydtheeagle

England 27 Jan 23 11.39am

Originally posted by Palacesince64

I’m not clear what Harris and Blitzer or indeed Textor have done since they bought into Palace.

In essence, as I've said before, there is no free cash flow generated by a football club. The principal reason for this is wages. In extreme cases such as Everton, wages consume over 90% of revenues but they're typically around 80% regardless. So there's no money to be made from operations (although unscrupulous owners still find ways to take cash out of the business).

With that in mind, what owners (Harris and Blitzer, or any other owner) does when they acquire a football club is to seek to increase its value over time so that while they may not turn a profit year-on-year, they can sell the asset for more than it was worth when they bought it over a period of years and thus make a profit when they leave.

This is achieved through things like building academies and stadiums (or stands). If the academy produces another Wilf/AWB/etc. that will generate revenue that increases the club's worth. More clearly, the Old Stand rebuild with its improved executive facilities, etc. will see matchday and thus annual revenues increase significantly. With its revenue streams larger, the club's valuation will be higher and the price the club will be worth when Blitzer and Harris sell will be greater. That's where their profit lies.

Let's be clear, building the academy and re-building the Old Stand are good for CPFC but that's not why Harris and Blitzer are supporting those projects. They're investing in them because doing so significantly increases their RoI. Either way, ultimately, the answer to the question "what have Harris and Blitzer done for Palace" lies fairly and squarely in the capital expenditure projects they've funded.

As a Palace supporter, you will probably say "I want a lot more from my owners than that. I want a commitment on the pitch too, as well as off it". And that's why our fans in the main don't like Harris and Blitzer, even though in a general sense they are doing a reasonably good job of stewarding the club in the right overall direction.

Edited by sydtheeagle (27 Jan 2023 11.41am)

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert a moderator to this post

silvertop Portishead 27 Jan 23 8.25pm
My guess as to plan. Our squad is good enough to stay up. Players are too expensive in January. Fill urgent need with loans if the terms suit. Get a few in August. Bring a few from academy. Spend prudently. Ignore whinging fans with hopelessly unrealistic expectations and overly pessimistic views of our prospects.
Alert a moderator to this post

silvertop

Portishead 27 Jan 23 8.25pm

My guess as to plan.

Our squad is good enough to stay up.

Players are too expensive in January.

Fill urgent need with loans if the terms suit.

Get a few in August.

Bring a few from academy.

Spend prudently.

Ignore whinging fans with hopelessly unrealistic expectations and overly pessimistic views of our prospects.

Alert a moderator to this post

Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 27 Jan 23 8.55pm
Spot on “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
Alert a moderator to this post

Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 27 Jan 23 8.55pm

Spot on

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

Alert a moderator to this post

orpingtoneagle Orpington 27 Jan 23 10.05pm
Look, for heaven's sake Parish is the saviour of the club and can do no wrong. He has two pet projects, a top level academy which may on time see us grow a pipeline of solid local talent. This will secure a degree of solidity in the future but is of no use right now to address the current issues. His second pet project is a shiny new stand (no doubt to be named the Parish Stand before we sell naming rights,) Again of no use of we are relegated. We have a very thin squad now with a host of others out of contract in the summer. Parish is in charge he is the CEO and right now seems to be playing a high risk game. Would I prefer a new stand or a better squad? As any new stand is likely to be just as uncomfortable as the current one I am not sure.
Alert a moderator to this post

orpingtoneagle

Orpington 27 Jan 23 10.05pm

Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle

Look, for heaven's sake Parish is the saviour of the club and can do no wrong.

He has two pet projects, a top level academy which may on time see us grow a pipeline of solid local talent. This will secure a degree of solidity in the future but is of no use right now to address the current issues.

His second pet project is a shiny new stand (no doubt to be named the Parish Stand before we sell naming rights,) Again of no use of we are relegated.

We have a very thin squad now with a host of others out of contract in the summer.

Parish is in charge he is the CEO and right now seems to be playing a high risk game.

Would I prefer a new stand or a better squad? As any new stand is likely to be just as uncomfortable as the current one I am not sure.

Alert a moderator to this post

sydtheeagle England 27 Jan 23 10.18pm
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle Parish is in charge he is the CEO and right now seems to be playing a high risk game. Without realising it, you've answered your own question. The clue is in the job title: CEO. The CEO's job is to implement the instructions of the board. Parish is NOT playing Parish's game. He is playing the game Harris and Blitzer have told him (and are paying him) to play on their behalf. Parish is simply following his boss' orders. Harris and Blitzer, on the other hand, are playing an extremely high-risk game (at least in my opinion, and clearly in yours too). I don't particularly like Parish for a whole variety or reasons, but people need to stop shooting the messenger. Edited by sydtheeagle (27 Jan 2023 10.19pm) Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.
Alert a moderator to this post

sydtheeagle

England 27 Jan 23 10.18pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Parish is in charge he is the CEO and right now seems to be playing a high risk game.

Without realising it, you've answered your own question. The clue is in the job title: CEO.

The CEO's job is to implement the instructions of the board. Parish is NOT playing Parish's game. He is playing the game Harris and Blitzer have told him (and are paying him) to play on their behalf.

Parish is simply following his boss' orders. Harris and Blitzer, on the other hand, are playing an extremely high-risk game (at least in my opinion, and clearly in yours too).

I don't particularly like Parish for a whole variety or reasons, but people need to stop shooting the messenger.

Edited by sydtheeagle (27 Jan 2023 10.19pm)

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert a moderator to this post

NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 28 Jan 23 9.13am
Originally posted by sydtheeagle Without realising it, you've answered your own question. The clue is in the job title: CEO. The CEO's job is to implement the instructions of the board. Parish is NOT playing Parish's game. He is playing the game Harris and Blitzer have told him (and are paying him) to play on their behalf. Parish is simply following his boss' orders. Harris and Blitzer, on the other hand, are playing an extremely high-risk game (at least in my opinion, and clearly in yours too). I don't particularly like Parish for a whole variety or reasons, but people need to stop shooting the messenger. Edited by sydtheeagle (27 Jan 2023 10.19pm) That begs the question as to what objectives Parish is set by Harris and Blitzer. It it goes little further than preserve EPL status, then he's doing the job. If it's to push on beyond that then I don't think he's being supported enough financially. Of course buying players doesn't necessarily equate to success, but Palace aren't even competing with their peer group at the moment. Yesterday I read a report that said that the Board were not satisfied with PV's performance last season. I find that questionable given our league placing and cup run. But it appears that the media are smelling blood at the moment, and there's usually an element of truth at such times. Let's face it, it would be typical of Palace to implode ! Edited by NEILLO (28 Jan 2023 9.14am) Old, Ungifted and White
Alert a moderator to this post

NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 28 Jan 23 9.13am

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

Without realising it, you've answered your own question. The clue is in the job title: CEO.

The CEO's job is to implement the instructions of the board. Parish is NOT playing Parish's game. He is playing the game Harris and Blitzer have told him (and are paying him) to play on their behalf.

Parish is simply following his boss' orders. Harris and Blitzer, on the other hand, are playing an extremely high-risk game (at least in my opinion, and clearly in yours too).

I don't particularly like Parish for a whole variety or reasons, but people need to stop shooting the messenger.

Edited by sydtheeagle (27 Jan 2023 10.19pm)

That begs the question as to what objectives Parish is set by Harris and Blitzer.

It it goes little further than preserve EPL status, then he's doing the job. If it's to push on beyond that then I don't think he's being supported enough financially. Of course buying players doesn't necessarily equate to success, but Palace aren't even competing with their peer group at the moment.

Yesterday I read a report that said that the Board were not satisfied with PV's performance last season. I find that questionable given our league placing and cup run. But it appears that the media are smelling blood at the moment, and there's usually an element of truth at such times.

Let's face it, it would be typical of Palace to implode !

Edited by NEILLO (28 Jan 2023 9.14am)

Old, Ungifted and White

Alert a moderator to this post

southnorwoodhill 28 Jan 23 9.19am
Originally posted by silvertop My guess as to plan. Our squad is good enough to stay up. Players are too expensive in January. Fill urgent need with loans if the terms suit. Get a few in August. Bring a few from academy. Spend prudently. Ignore whinging fans with hopelessly unrealistic expectations and overly pessimistic views of our prospects. A good post, and I am guessing reasonably accurate.
Alert a moderator to this post

southnorwoodhill

28 Jan 23 9.19am