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HeathMan Purley 05 Sep 22 12.19pm
Total terror - Mr Lineker reviewing VAR decisions on MOTD with power to change results.
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HeathMan

Purley 05 Sep 22 12.19pm

Total terror - Mr Lineker reviewing VAR decisions on MOTD with power to change results.

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Putitout Oxford 05 Sep 22 12.31pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 We wouldn't need VAR if the laws on handball and offside were simple and clear to all. Handball - deliberate arm to ball. Offside - foot in front of the last man, at the time the ball is kicked. I watch our other youth teams, the championship, I never miss VAR. Refs do make mistakes, so have clear simple rules to make their task easier. We wanted VAR to work but it didn't, and everything we have done to make it work has made it even worse. Agree completely we should have kept the game simple,just as you say. But once TV got its hands on the game it was never going to be simple again. I have said this elsewhere but VAR has only happened because TV was already doing off field introspection of decisions. Now it does off field inspection of VAR decisions. The bottom line is some rules now are so vague they can only be thought contentious when ruled on ,no matter the system. Someone back in the thread says it needs ex players. I wouldn’t agree simply because the players want it all ways as long as it goes their way. Most changes we see have happened because of player,manager whinging . Take Wilf, he can’t move unless someone grabs , pushes, kicks ,trips him, and all he gets is he goes down to easy , he buys it ,and so on. This is what the players want until it smacks them in the face.
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Putitout

Oxford 05 Sep 22 12.31pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

We wouldn't need VAR if the laws on handball and offside were simple and clear to all.

Handball - deliberate arm to ball.

Offside - foot in front of the last man, at the time the ball is kicked.

I watch our other youth teams, the championship, I never miss VAR.

Refs do make mistakes, so have clear simple rules to make their task easier.

We wanted VAR to work but it didn't, and everything we have done to make it work has made it even worse.

Agree completely we should have kept the game simple,just as you say. But once TV got its hands on the game it was never going to be simple again. I have said this elsewhere but VAR has only happened because TV was already doing off field introspection of decisions. Now it does off field inspection of VAR decisions.
The bottom line is some rules now are so vague they can only be thought contentious when ruled on ,no matter the system. Someone back in the thread says it needs ex players. I wouldn’t agree simply because the players want it all ways as long as it goes their way. Most changes we see have happened because of player,manager whinging .
Take Wilf, he can’t move unless someone grabs , pushes, kicks ,trips him, and all he gets is he goes down to easy , he buys it ,and so on. This is what the players want until it smacks them in the face.

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CrazyBadger Ware 05 Sep 22 12.53pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 We wouldn't need VAR if the laws on handball and offside were simple and clear to all. Handball - deliberate arm to ball. Offside - foot in front of the last man, at the time the ball is kicked. I watch our other youth teams, the championship, I never miss VAR. Refs do make mistakes, so have clear simple rules to make their task easier. We wanted VAR to work but it didn't, and everything we have done to make it work has made it even worse. Deliberate Handball is not a Simple rule. Handball is a Simple Rule, but one you start adding players thought processes in (i.e. it was deliberate), it becomes one for interpretation by the ref. Offside is a simple Rule, but VAR in it's current state isn't good enough to accurately determine it in those times that it's 'marginal' It needs changing; and here's how: 1) Ignore arms. Torso, legs and head are the only thing that can be offside. 2) a 'buffer' added to the attackers 'line'. say 30cm. If the VAR lines then overlap, you stick with the onfield decision. Really, the only was to Stop this speculation by the pundits is to have the Refs explain their decisions. or be mic'd up. or both. Edited by CrazyBadger (05 Sep 2022 12.54pm) "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 05 Sep 22 12.53pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

We wouldn't need VAR if the laws on handball and offside were simple and clear to all.

Handball - deliberate arm to ball.

Offside - foot in front of the last man, at the time the ball is kicked.

I watch our other youth teams, the championship, I never miss VAR.

Refs do make mistakes, so have clear simple rules to make their task easier.

We wanted VAR to work but it didn't, and everything we have done to make it work has made it even worse.

Deliberate Handball is not a Simple rule.

Handball is a Simple Rule, but one you start adding players thought processes in (i.e. it was deliberate), it becomes one for interpretation by the ref.

Offside is a simple Rule, but VAR in it's current state isn't good enough to accurately determine it in those times that it's 'marginal'
It needs changing; and here's how:
1) Ignore arms. Torso, legs and head are the only thing that can be offside.
2) a 'buffer' added to the attackers 'line'. say 30cm. If the VAR lines then overlap, you stick with the onfield decision.

Really, the only was to Stop this speculation by the pundits is to have the Refs explain their decisions. or be mic'd up. or both.

Edited by CrazyBadger (05 Sep 2022 12.54pm)

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Goal Machine The Cronx 05 Sep 22 12.58pm
The implementation is shocking. We were certainly fortunate on Saturday, but I've seen far worse VAR decisions which didn't hit the headlines. Said it before and I will again... Scrap it for normal play and give each captain 1 review per game to be used on penalty/goal/red card incidents. Captain will keep the review if they correctly overturn the decision. 20 second limit to review from two angles - shouldn't need more time than that to spot a 'clear and obvious' error. VAR was introduced to prevent phantom goal situations and clear errors which might realistically happen 5 times a season. Not interfering with every goal incident. Can't celebrate goals anymore. Hate it. Retrospective bands for diving should also be reintroduced. Good idea, but never implemented properly.
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Goal Machine

The Cronx 05 Sep 22 12.58pm

The implementation is shocking. We were certainly fortunate on Saturday, but I've seen far worse VAR decisions which didn't hit the headlines.

Said it before and I will again... Scrap it for normal play and give each captain 1 review per game to be used on penalty/goal/red card incidents. Captain will keep the review if they correctly overturn the decision. 20 second limit to review from two angles - shouldn't need more time than that to spot a 'clear and obvious' error.

VAR was introduced to prevent phantom goal situations and clear errors which might realistically happen 5 times a season. Not interfering with every goal incident. Can't celebrate goals anymore. Hate it.

Retrospective bands for diving should also be reintroduced. Good idea, but never implemented properly.

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Spiderman Horsham 05 Sep 22 1.24pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC One thinks the Saudis have slipped in a few quid now - to avoid future 'misinterpretations'. One can just imagine Staveley chocking on her saveloy as the Newcastle goal was disallowed. I think you may be correct on all points . Some very strange comments about taking things forward with the authorities! [Link] Edited by Spiderman (05 Sep 2022 1.26pm)
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Spiderman

Horsham 05 Sep 22 1.24pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

One thinks the Saudis have slipped in a few quid now - to avoid future 'misinterpretations'.
One can just imagine Staveley chocking on her saveloy as the Newcastle goal was disallowed.

I think you may be correct on all points . Some very strange comments about taking things forward with the authorities!

[Link]

Edited by Spiderman (05 Sep 2022 1.26pm)

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 05 Sep 22 1.31pm
Originally posted by Goal Machine The implementation is shocking. We were certainly fortunate on Saturday, but I've seen far worse VAR decisions which didn't hit the headlines. Said it before and I will again... Scrap it for normal play and give each captain 1 review per game to be used on penalty/goal/red card incidents. Captain will keep the review if they correctly overturn the decision. 20 second limit to review from two angles - shouldn't need more time than that to spot a 'clear and obvious' error. VAR was introduced to prevent phantom goal situations and clear errors which might realistically happen 5 times a season. Not interfering with every goal incident. Can't celebrate goals anymore. Hate it. Retrospective bands for diving should also be reintroduced. Good idea, but never implemented properly. Absolutely agree with everything there. Tennis the most obvious comparison for me but not 3 'challenges' I'd say 1 'challenge' per half or even game. If you get it right, keep it. If wrong, you lose it. Teams would then be far more selective about which decisions they'd want reviewed and ultimately be responsible for their own fate. Would draw attention away from referees for criticism too or expose them for how useless they are. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 05 Sep 22 1.31pm

Originally posted by Goal Machine

The implementation is shocking. We were certainly fortunate on Saturday, but I've seen far worse VAR decisions which didn't hit the headlines.

Retrospective bands for diving should also be reintroduced. Good idea, but never implemented properly.

Absolutely agree with everything there.

Tennis the most obvious comparison for me but not 3 'challenges' I'd say 1 'challenge' per half or even game.

If you get it right, keep it. If wrong, you lose it. Teams would then be far more selective about which decisions they'd want reviewed and ultimately be responsible for their own fate. Would draw attention away from referees for criticism too or expose them for how useless they are.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Spiderman Horsham 05 Sep 22 1.40pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 Absolutely agree with everything there. Tennis the most obvious comparison for me but not 3 'challenges' I'd say 1 'challenge' per half or even game. If you get it right, keep it. If wrong, you lose it. Teams would then be far more selective about which decisions they'd want reviewed and ultimately be responsible for their own fate. Would draw attention away from referees for criticism too or expose them for how useless they are. The problem with this is that, the same idiots are making the decisions
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Spiderman

Horsham 05 Sep 22 1.40pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Absolutely agree with everything there.

Tennis the most obvious comparison for me but not 3 'challenges' I'd say 1 'challenge' per half or even game.

The problem with this is that, the same idiots are making the decisions

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eaglesdare 05 Sep 22 1.50pm
Amazing that the only league in the world that VAR does not work in is the Premier league!
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eaglesdare

05 Sep 22 1.50pm

Amazing that the only league in the world that VAR does not work in is the Premier league!

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 05 Sep 22 1.51pm
Originally posted by Spiderman The problem with this is that, the same idiots are making the decisions Yep very true. Unfortunately the incompetency of officiating in football for me has been ever present. It is as though they've all read the book and done the course however never played the game in their lives. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 05 Sep 22 1.51pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

The problem with this is that, the same idiots are making the decisions

Yep very true.

Unfortunately the incompetency of officiating in football for me has been ever present. It is as though they've all read the book and done the course however never played the game in their lives.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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CrazyBadger Ware 05 Sep 22 2.02pm
Originally posted by Spiderman The problem with this is that, the same idiots are making the decisions Which is why I prefer the 'buffer' for offside It's one less complicated decision for them to make; any doubt, then it's the onfield decision. Edited by CrazyBadger (05 Sep 2022 2.02pm) "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 05 Sep 22 2.02pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

The problem with this is that, the same idiots are making the decisions

Which is why I prefer the 'buffer' for offside It's one less complicated decision for them to make; any doubt, then it's the onfield decision.

Edited by CrazyBadger (05 Sep 2022 2.02pm)

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Sep 22 2.17pm
Originally posted by Goal Machine The implementation is shocking. We were certainly fortunate on Saturday, but I've seen far worse VAR decisions which didn't hit the headlines. Said it before and I will again... Scrap it for normal play and give each captain 1 review per game to be used on penalty/goal/red card incidents. Captain will keep the review if they correctly overturn the decision. 20 second limit to review from two angles - shouldn't need more time than that to spot a 'clear and obvious' error. VAR was introduced to prevent phantom goal situations and clear errors which might realistically happen 5 times a season. Not interfering with every goal incident. Can't celebrate goals anymore. Hate it. Retrospective bands for diving should also be reintroduced. Good idea, but never implemented properly. I know a gentleman who detests VAR and seemingly every conversation I have with him contains a diatribe from this chap expressing his view in forthright fashion. One of the issues he has raised concerning the celebration of goals with players and supporters unsure if a goal is to be awarded, often having to endure a break in play whilst the referee is waiting for the dialogue from the VAR.In bygone days one simply had to look at the referee's signal confirming the goal. He also expressed the view that the authorities over the years have tried to aid the flow of the game citing the back pass to the goalkeeper and the multi-ball system yet now the game is interrupted by the referee having to wait for the VAR and in some instances having to refer to the pitchside monitor. He has also asserted that in bygone days one found fault with the decisions of the referee, now fault is found not only with the referee but the VAR. And don't get him started on "Clear and obvious" !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Sep 22 2.17pm

Originally posted by Goal Machine

The implementation is shocking. We were certainly fortunate on Saturday, but I've seen far worse VAR decisions which didn't hit the headlines.

Retrospective bands for diving should also be reintroduced. Good idea, but never implemented properly.

I know a gentleman who detests VAR and seemingly every conversation I have with him contains a diatribe from this chap expressing his view in forthright fashion.

One of the issues he has raised concerning the celebration of goals with players and supporters unsure if a goal is to be awarded, often having to endure a break in play whilst the referee is waiting for the dialogue from the VAR.In bygone days one simply had to look at the referee's signal confirming the goal.

He also expressed the view that the authorities over the years have tried to aid the flow of the game citing the back pass to the goalkeeper and the multi-ball system yet now the game is interrupted by the referee having to wait for the VAR and in some instances having to refer to the pitchside monitor.

He has also asserted that in bygone days one found fault with the decisions of the referee, now fault is found not only with the referee but the VAR.
And don't get him started on "Clear and obvious" !

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Goal Machine The Cronx 05 Sep 22 2.45pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger Which is why I prefer the 'buffer' for offside It's one less complicated decision for them to make; any doubt, then it's the onfield decision. Edited by CrazyBadger (05 Sep 2022 2.02pm) The trouble with a 'buffer' is where does the buffer end? The offside rule in theory is very black and white - as is the line call in a tennis match. We just need to keep it simple - using the end of the foot is the obvious solution. It becomes a total nonsense when we start using shoulders/arms etc. As per my previous comment, only refer to the offside VAR if the linesman's decision was challenged.
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Goal Machine

The Cronx 05 Sep 22 2.45pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

Which is why I prefer the 'buffer' for offside It's one less complicated decision for them to make; any doubt, then it's the onfield decision.

Edited by CrazyBadger (05 Sep 2022 2.02pm)

The trouble with a 'buffer' is where does the buffer end? The offside rule in theory is very black and white - as is the line call in a tennis match. We just need to keep it simple - using the end of the foot is the obvious solution. It becomes a total nonsense when we start using shoulders/arms etc.

As per my previous comment, only refer to the offside VAR if the linesman's decision was challenged.

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