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Do people need to " graft harder "

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kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 17 Aug 22 12.13pm
Ironically,at the time, I was very left wing, but ended up taking a leaf from norman tebbits / thatchers ' get on your bike' mantra. Late 70s id guess. A good few of us were unemployed, I had a car (old cortina mk1) so we put a roof rack on it, borrowed dads ladders & bought a bucket, clothes & squegees. We targeted the poor access houses that other window cleaners didnt want to do & went knocking doors asking to clean their windows. Only took a few months before we had enough work for 2 of us about 3-4 days a week. Once we were known in the neighbourhood we picked up odd painting & roof repairs too. Not much ££ really but it meant we had cash for a pint, girlfriends etc etc. Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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kingdowieonthewall

Sussex, ex-Cronx. 17 Aug 22 12.13pm

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Ironically,at the time, I was very left wing, but ended up taking a leaf from norman tebbits / thatchers ' get on your bike' mantra.
Late 70s id guess.
A good few of us were unemployed, I had a car (old cortina mk1) so we put a roof rack on it, borrowed dads ladders & bought a bucket, clothes & squegees.
We targeted the poor access houses that other window cleaners didnt want to do & went knocking doors asking to clean their windows.
Only took a few months before we had enough work for 2 of us about 3-4 days a week.
Once we were known in the neighbourhood we picked up odd painting & roof repairs too.
Not much ££ really but it meant we had cash for a pint, girlfriends etc etc.

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

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becky over the moon 17 Aug 22 12.24pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Some are already working very hard, some not. When I was back recently I travelled a lot by train. I used most of the London hub stations, all staff now have a different coloured bib de[ending on which rail company they work for. It was very noticeable at the bigger stations there were always groups of 5/6 staff just in a group chatting and checking their phones on the concourse. At the smaller stations the staff seemed to be busier. I went to Sports Direct in Westfield at White City, trying to get the idol staff to serve you was difficult, mostly just chatting to each other and checking their phones. The poor store manager was unable to do anything. There is certainly much room for improvement in the work ethic. Some people have an expectation of having a relatively easy life without working hard. There is always room for improvement in anything. I think Truss will suffer from the release of her comment from 2019. This seems to be a common problem - solution? ban the personal use of mobiles (and online computer stuff) at work and ensure they pay attention to their duties during working hours. If there is a serious family/other emergency then the staff member could be contacted via the business's telephone line. Worked fine in my days in an office..... A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 17 Aug 22 12.24pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Some are already working very hard, some not.
When I was back recently I travelled a lot by train. I used most of the London hub stations, all staff now have a different coloured bib de[ending on which rail company they work for. It was very noticeable at the bigger stations there were always groups of 5/6 staff just in a group chatting and checking their phones on the concourse. At the smaller stations the staff seemed to be busier.

I went to Sports Direct in Westfield at White City, trying to get the idol staff to serve you was difficult, mostly just chatting to each other and checking their phones. The poor store manager was unable to do anything.

There is certainly much room for improvement in the work ethic. Some people have an expectation of having a relatively easy life without working hard.

There is always room for improvement in anything.

I think Truss will suffer from the release of her comment from 2019.

This seems to be a common problem - solution? ban the personal use of mobiles (and online computer stuff) at work and ensure they pay attention to their duties during working hours.

If there is a serious family/other emergency then the staff member could be contacted via the business's telephone line.

Worked fine in my days in an office.....

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Aug 22 12.48pm
Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall Ironically,at the time, I was very left wing, but ended up taking a leaf from norman tebbits / thatchers ' get on your bike' mantra. Late 70s id guess. A good few of us were unemployed, I had a car (old cortina mk1) so we put a roof rack on it, borrowed dads ladders & bought a bucket, clothes & squegees. We targeted the poor access houses that other window cleaners didnt want to do & went knocking doors asking to clean their windows. Only took a few months before we had enough work for 2 of us about 3-4 days a week. Once we were known in the neighbourhood we picked up odd painting & roof repairs too. Not much ££ really but it meant we had cash for a pint, girlfriends etc etc. I have an old friend who, when I lived across the road from him, was an out of work actor, and wanna be writer. So he too cleaned windows. Then he got a break as one of the original writers on Eastenders, where he stayed for many years, writing some of the most memorable episodes, moving on to write and direct many other shows, both on TV and in the theatre, picking up a BAFTA and now about to publish his third novel. He is a multi-millionaire. Hard work generally pays off. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 17 Aug 22 12.48pm

Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall

I have an old friend who, when I lived across the road from him, was an out of work actor, and wanna be writer. So he too cleaned windows. Then he got a break as one of the original writers on Eastenders, where he stayed for many years, writing some of the most memorable episodes, moving on to write and direct many other shows, both on TV and in the theatre, picking up a BAFTA and now about to publish his third novel. He is a multi-millionaire.

Hard work generally pays off.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 17 Aug 22 1.12pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I have an old friend who, when I lived across the road from him, was an out of work actor, and wanna be writer. So he too cleaned windows. Then he got a break as one of the original writers on Eastenders, where he stayed for many years, writing some of the most memorable episodes, moving on to write and direct many other shows, both on TV and in the theatre, picking up a BAFTA and now about to publish his third novel. He is a multi-millionaire. Hard work generally pays off. That's something of an isolated example though. How many people in their 50s get made redundant regardless of how hard they've worked for a company simply because a younger person is a cheaper option and "it's time for some fresh ideas, blah blah, blah". Hard work may be it's own reward but very often its the only reward and flog a willing horse is the watchword.
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Teddy Eagle

17 Aug 22 1.12pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Hard work generally pays off.

That's something of an isolated example though.
How many people in their 50s get made redundant regardless of how hard they've worked for a company simply because a younger person is a cheaper option and "it's time for some fresh ideas, blah blah, blah".
Hard work may be it's own reward but very often its the only reward and flog a willing horse is the watchword.

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W12 17 Aug 22 1.19pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle That's something of an isolated example though. How many people in their 50s get made redundant regardless of how hard they've worked for a company simply because a younger person is a cheaper option and "it's time for some fresh ideas, blah blah, blah". Hard work may be it's own reward but very often its the only reward and flog a willing horse is the watchword. What's the point of working harder if: 1. Your company is actively working to move your role to India or somewhere where people are willing to do your job (badly) for peanuts 2. You have to compete with people willing to live 20 to a single house who don't pay tax 3. Even if you hold down a job you cannot afford enough for a mortgage and even if you can you face a lifetime of debt trying to pay it off 4. Any money you earn continues to be devalued by quantitate easing and any money you managed to save is continually eaten away by inflation All this is a result of government and corporate policy but at the same time it's all your fault and you need to work harder to pay more tax.
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W12 17 Aug 22 1.19pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

What's the point of working harder if:

1. Your company is actively working to move your role to India or somewhere where people are willing to do your job (badly) for peanuts

2. You have to compete with people willing to live 20 to a single house who don't pay tax

3. Even if you hold down a job you cannot afford enough for a mortgage and even if you can you face a lifetime of debt trying to pay it off

4. Any money you earn continues to be devalued by quantitate easing and any money you managed to save is continually eaten away by inflation

All this is a result of government and corporate policy but at the same time it's all your fault and you need to work harder to pay more tax.

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Hrolf The Ganger 17 Aug 22 1.26pm
I'm sorry but the idea that people should work harder is laughable. The individual can benefit from working harder if they choose but this is not China or Soviet Russia. The ambition of the people should be to work less and the quality of life for most people is still far too low when you consider the amount of available wealth, 90% of which is owned by 1% of the population. Working conditions for many are appauling and wages minimal. I'm sure lower wages and higher productivity are good for inflation and the economy but what anbout the individual? Automation should be a great benefit to society as is working from home for those able and willing. Those are the kind of progressions that we need, not trying to compete with third world countries who have huge populations and pay tiny wages for virtual slave labour. Clearly that is what our European governments and globalists want to aspire to. A world where we all work harder for less and the super rich get richer of the back of it. And why should we work harder in dead end jobs when our taxes are wasted on illegal immigrants and paying for accomodation and benefits for an ever increasing immigrant population many of whom come here to sponge of our welfare system. Even when we get ill, you often don't get proper treatment in hospital or have access a GP. THe young can't buy their first home unless mum and dad are well off. Choosing between Truss and Sunak is like choosing between a kick in the balls and a punch on the nose. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Aug 2022 1.34pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

17 Aug 22 1.26pm

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I'm sorry but the idea that people should work harder is laughable.

The individual can benefit from working harder if they choose but this is not China or Soviet Russia. The ambition of the people should be to work less and the quality of life for most people is still far too low when you consider the amount of available wealth, 90% of which is owned by 1% of the population.

Working conditions for many are appauling and wages minimal.
I'm sure lower wages and higher productivity are good for inflation and the economy but what anbout the individual?

Automation should be a great benefit to society as is working from home for those able and willing. Those are the kind of progressions that we need, not trying to compete with third world countries who have huge populations and pay tiny wages for virtual slave labour.

Clearly that is what our European governments and globalists want to aspire to. A world where we all work harder for less and the super rich get richer of the back of it.

And why should we work harder in dead end jobs when our taxes are wasted on illegal immigrants and paying for accomodation and benefits for an ever increasing immigrant population many of whom come here to sponge of our welfare system. Even when we get ill, you often don't get proper treatment in hospital or have access a GP. THe young can't buy their first home unless mum and dad are well off.

Choosing between Truss and Sunak is like choosing between a kick in the balls and a punch on the nose.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Aug 2022 1.34pm)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 1.29pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm sorry but the idea that people should work harder is laughable. The individual can benefit from working harder if they choose but this is not China or Soviet Russia. The ambition of the people should be to work less and the quality of life for most people is still far too low when you consider the amount of available wealth, 90% of which is owned by 1% of the population. Working conditions for many are appauling and wages minimal. I'm sure lower wages and higher productivity are good for inflation and the economy but what anbout the individual? Automation should be a great benefit to society as is working from home for those able and willing. Those are the knnd of progressions that we need, not trying to compete with third world countries who have huge populations and pay tiny wages for virtual slave labour. Clearly that is what our European governments and globalists want to aspire to. A world where we all work harder for less and the super rich get richer of the back of it. And why should we work harer in dead end jobs when our taxes are wasted on illegal immigrants and paying for accomodation and benefits for an ever increasing immigrant population many of whom come here to sponge of our welfare system. Even when we get ill, you often don't get proper treeatment in hospital or have access a GP. THe young can't buy their first home unless mum and dad are well off. Choosig between Truss and Sunak is like choosing between a kick in the balls and a punch on the nose. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Aug 2022 1.27pm) I completely agree with you and W12 on this. Working hard and getting rewarded is a delusion that barely exists in today's world. More like work hard, someone else gets the reward. And my attitude is absolutely f*CK them. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 1.29pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm sorry but the idea that people should work harder is laughable.

Working conditions for many are appauling and wages minimal.
I'm sure lower wages and higher productivity are good for inflation and the economy but what anbout the individual?

Automation should be a great benefit to society as is working from home for those able and willing. Those are the knnd of progressions that we need, not trying to compete with third world countries who have huge populations and pay tiny wages for virtual slave labour.

Clearly that is what our European governments and globalists want to aspire to. A world where we all work harder for less and the super rich get richer of the back of it.

And why should we work harer in dead end jobs when our taxes are wasted on illegal immigrants and paying for accomodation and benefits for an ever increasing immigrant population many of whom come here to sponge of our welfare system. Even when we get ill, you often don't get proper treeatment in hospital or have access a GP. THe young can't buy their first home unless mum and dad are well off.

Choosig between Truss and Sunak is like choosing between a kick in the balls and a punch on the nose.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Aug 2022 1.27pm)

I completely agree with you and W12 on this. Working hard and getting rewarded is a delusion that barely exists in today's world. More like work hard, someone else gets the reward. And my attitude is absolutely f*CK them.

Red and Blue Army!

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 1.49pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I have an old friend who, when I lived across the road from him, was an out of work actor, and wanna be writer. So he too cleaned windows. Then he got a break as one of the original writers on Eastenders, where he stayed for many years, writing some of the most memorable episodes, moving on to write and direct many other shows, both on TV and in the theatre, picking up a BAFTA and now about to publish his third novel. He is a multi-millionaire. Hard work generally pays off. Of course you have a multi millionaire showbiz friend, thank you for sharing with us so we can genuflect. DIPAG Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 22 1.49pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Hard work generally pays off.

Of course you have a multi millionaire showbiz friend, thank you for sharing with us so we can genuflect.

DIPAG

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Aug 22 2.35pm
As I understood the OP, and it is very possible I may be wrong on this one (HKO can correct me), the slant was different to a lot of the commentary on this thread which I find both interesting and valid. I took it to mean: Work harder - just do your f-ing job... properly, first and foremost. Have some ambition and not act like the world owes you a living. And not: Work as many hours as there are, break your back if necessary, deprioritize your life/experiences, overload yourself with stress and do so for the benefit of others not yourself. I work in a field where I have seen many work staggeringly hard for very little reward and at great cost. A great example for me is seeing young women suddenly get to near 40 and realise that starting a family etc. may have passed them by and should of been of higher priority than a few extra zeros on their pay each month and a fancier job title, men too of course. It's very sad and has happened to a few friends. I do believe in a healthy work/life balance but the two should work hand in hand. I don't believe in slacking, barely getting by for a barely sustainable wage any more than I do sacrificing life itself for working. I've always considered my job necessary in order for me to live my life but I would never commit my all to it at expense of even the small things. I distinctly remember overhearing my wife on the phone explaining to medical staff one time that I would be definitely able to attend her mid-week appointment for which she needed anaesthetic as she knows full well that I would prioritise that over anything work related and would be there. It's somewhat nihilistic to say 'what's the f-ing point' and one end of the spectrum and I would say quite sad at the other end to place all your energy into working. Elon Musk is a prime example for me - has untold wealth and what have you but when I read about his life I just think 'massive kudos... but not for me, not now not ever'. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Aug 22 2.35pm

As I understood the OP, and it is very possible I may be wrong on this one (HKO can correct me), the slant was different to a lot of the commentary on this thread which I find both interesting and valid.

I took it to mean: Work harder - just do your f-ing job... properly, first and foremost. Have some ambition and not act like the world owes you a living.

And not: Work as many hours as there are, break your back if necessary, deprioritize your life/experiences, overload yourself with stress and do so for the benefit of others not yourself.

I work in a field where I have seen many work staggeringly hard for very little reward and at great cost. A great example for me is seeing young women suddenly get to near 40 and realise that starting a family etc. may have passed them by and should of been of higher priority than a few extra zeros on their pay each month and a fancier job title, men too of course. It's very sad and has happened to a few friends.

I do believe in a healthy work/life balance but the two should work hand in hand. I don't believe in slacking, barely getting by for a barely sustainable wage any more than I do sacrificing life itself for working.

I've always considered my job necessary in order for me to live my life but I would never commit my all to it at expense of even the small things. I distinctly remember overhearing my wife on the phone explaining to medical staff one time that I would be definitely able to attend her mid-week appointment for which she needed anaesthetic as she knows full well that I would prioritise that over anything work related and would be there.

It's somewhat nihilistic to say 'what's the f-ing point' and one end of the spectrum and I would say quite sad at the other end to place all your energy into working. Elon Musk is a prime example for me - has untold wealth and what have you but when I read about his life I just think 'massive kudos... but not for me, not now not ever'.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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cryrst The garden of England 17 Aug 22 4.18pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Of course you have a multi millionaire showbiz friend, thank you for sharing with us so we can genuflect. DIPAG Stop it my ribs hurt
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cryrst

The garden of England 17 Aug 22 4.18pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Of course you have a multi millionaire showbiz friend, thank you for sharing with us so we can genuflect.

DIPAG

Stop it my ribs hurt

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 4.25pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Of course you have a multi millionaire showbiz friend, thank you for sharing with us so we can genuflect. DIPAG What's DIPAG? Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Aug 22 4.25pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Of course you have a multi millionaire showbiz friend, thank you for sharing with us so we can genuflect.

DIPAG

What's DIPAG?

Red and Blue Army!

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kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 17 Aug 22 4.26pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 As I understood the OP, and it is very possible I may be wrong on this one (HKO can correct me), the slant was different to a lot of the commentary on this thread which I find both interesting and valid. I took it to mean: Work harder - just do your f-ing job... properly, first and foremost. Have some ambition and not act like the world owes you a living. And not: Work as many hours as there are, break your back if necessary, deprioritize your life/experiences, overload yourself with stress and do so for the benefit of others not yourself. I work in a field where I have seen many work staggeringly hard for very little reward and at great cost. A great example for me is seeing young women suddenly get to near 40 and realise that starting a family etc. may have passed them by and should of been of higher priority than a few extra zeros on their pay each month and a fancier job title, men too of course. It's very sad and has happened to a few friends. I do believe in a healthy work/life balance but the two should work hand in hand. I don't believe in slacking, barely getting by for a barely sustainable wage any more than I do sacrificing life itself for working. I've always considered my job necessary in order for me to live my life but I would never commit my all to it at expense of even the small things. I distinctly remember overhearing my wife on the phone explaining to medical staff one time that I would be definitely able to attend her mid-week appointment for which she needed anaesthetic as she knows full well that I would prioritise that over anything work related and would be there. It's somewhat nihilistic to say 'what's the f-ing point' and one end of the spectrum and I would say quite sad at the other end to place all your energy into working. Elon Musk is a prime example for me - has untold wealth and what have you but when I read about his life I just think 'massive kudos... but not for me, not now not ever'. Agree with this. I guess its a balancing act between work & personal time, to obtain what you wish, within sensible, achievable goals. I admire people that honestly are not bothered by cars, new TVs, phones, latest clothes etc. they only need to bring in a lower amount to pay for general living costs. Being self employed & 60s, I deliberatly dodge work here & there to factor in 3-5 days off, rather than just 2. Also if I just do enough I can carry on bringing in spends for a fair while, but dont intend to knacker myself (I done that in my 40s doing 7 days a week, sent me ' round the bend) Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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kingdowieonthewall

Sussex, ex-Cronx. 17 Aug 22 4.26pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I took it to mean: Work harder - just do your f-ing job... properly, first and foremost. Have some ambition and not act like the world owes you a living.

And not: Work as many hours as there are, break your back if necessary, deprioritize your life/experiences, overload yourself with stress and do so for the benefit of others not yourself.

Agree with this.
I guess its a balancing act between work & personal time, to obtain what you wish, within sensible, achievable goals.
I admire people that honestly are not bothered by cars, new TVs, phones, latest clothes etc.
they only need to bring in a lower amount to pay for general living costs.
Being self employed & 60s, I deliberatly dodge work here & there to factor in 3-5 days off, rather than just 2.
Also if I just do enough I can carry on bringing in spends for a fair while, but dont intend to knacker myself (I done that in my 40s doing 7 days a week, sent me ' round the bend)

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

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