Marine Le Pen

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Marine Le Pen

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Stirlingsays 08 Apr 22 1.10pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not sure Stalin backed anyone in English elections. He didn't have much time for elections. One of his most famous quotes (which might be apocryphal) was that it didn't matter who cast the votes. What mattered was who counted them. Yes, it does matter who Putin backs. What Stalin did, or even could, have done did not extend to the voter attitude manipulation via social media, we now have. Putin trying, and succeeding, to get Trump into the WH wasn't done for the benefit of the people in the USA. It was done to make pursuing his own agenda easier. So it is with Le Pen. Her Party owes money to Russia. What else does it owe? The reductionism lies with those who simply think Putin does this because he is also a "conservative". Putin is a populist. Interested in power and his own survival. His commitment to any ideology is limited to what suits him best at any one moment. As a supporter of disconnected elites you dislike populism, I like it because I recognise the damage they have done. We have played out this debate multiple times. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 1.25pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Apr 22 1.10pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not sure Stalin backed anyone in English elections. He didn't have much time for elections. One of his most famous quotes (which might be apocryphal) was that it didn't matter who cast the votes. What mattered was who counted them.

Yes, it does matter who Putin backs. What Stalin did, or even could, have done did not extend to the voter attitude manipulation via social media, we now have. Putin trying, and succeeding, to get Trump into the WH wasn't done for the benefit of the people in the USA. It was done to make pursuing his own agenda easier. So it is with Le Pen. Her Party owes money to Russia. What else does it owe?

The reductionism lies with those who simply think Putin does this because he is also a "conservative". Putin is a populist. Interested in power and his own survival. His commitment to any ideology is limited to what suits him best at any one moment.

As a supporter of disconnected elites you dislike populism, I like it because I recognise the damage they have done.

We have played out this debate multiple times.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 1.25pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Apr 22 2.05pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays As a supporter of disconnected elites you dislike populism, I like it because I recognise the damage they have done. We have played out this debate multiple times. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 1.25pm) What total nonsense. I don't support "elites", disconnected or otherwise. You do! I support democracy. You support the idea that populists, and their cronies, are better at running things. Populists like Trump, who wanted to overturn a democratic vote, which he lost. Populists like Putin, who suppress opposition, control the media and effectively the voting processes. Populists like Oban who throw opposition politicians in jail, who has usurped democracy, runs a virtual one-party state, gives top jobs to cronies and uses state funds to spread his propaganda. Populists run elitist regimes. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 Apr 22 2.05pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As a supporter of disconnected elites you dislike populism, I like it because I recognise the damage they have done.

We have played out this debate multiple times.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 1.25pm)

What total nonsense. I don't support "elites", disconnected or otherwise. You do!

I support democracy.

You support the idea that populists, and their cronies, are better at running things. Populists like Trump, who wanted to overturn a democratic vote, which he lost. Populists like Putin, who suppress opposition, control the media and effectively the voting processes. Populists like Oban who throw opposition politicians in jail, who has usurped democracy, runs a virtual one-party state, gives top jobs to cronies and uses state funds to spread his propaganda.

Populists run elitist regimes.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 08 Apr 22 2.17pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What total nonsense. I don't support "elites", disconnected or otherwise. You do! I support democracy. You support the idea that populists, and their cronies, are better at running things. Populists like Trump, who wanted to overturn a democratic vote, which he lost. Populists like Putin, who suppress opposition, control the media and effectively the voting processes. Populists like Oban who throw opposition politicians in jail, who has usurped democracy, runs a virtual one-party state, gives top jobs to cronies and uses state funds to spread his propaganda. Populists run elitist regimes. I support Orban, I wasn't aware I support Putin. The very phrase 'populists run elitist regimes' is so contradictory that it makes my head spin. Anyway, when I say elites the leaders are only figureheads. You're so disfigured that you try to present the idea that my not supporting our modern elites means that I don't support the concept of a leader....All societies have elites and they are inevitable....I don't support these elites...they are disconnected and globalist. It's obvious to anyone honest what 'elites' are and that's the managerial and corporate classes who make the decisions that decide and restrict our lives...more often than not for the worse. All helped by their underlings who implement the rules and laws. It's quite incredible to experience the ocean of pure nonsense you're prepared to wetly write. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 2.34pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Apr 22 2.17pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What total nonsense. I don't support "elites", disconnected or otherwise. You do!

I support democracy.

Populists run elitist regimes.

I support Orban, I wasn't aware I support Putin.

The very phrase 'populists run elitist regimes' is so contradictory that it makes my head spin.

Anyway, when I say elites the leaders are only figureheads.
You're so disfigured that you try to present the idea that my not supporting our modern elites means that I don't support the concept of a leader....All societies have elites and they are inevitable....I don't support these elites...they are disconnected and globalist.

It's obvious to anyone honest what 'elites' are and that's the managerial and corporate classes who make the decisions that decide and restrict our lives...more often than not for the worse. All helped by their underlings who implement the rules and laws.

It's quite incredible to experience the ocean of pure nonsense you're prepared to wetly write.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 2.34pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Apr 22 2.59pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I support Orban, I wasn't aware I support Putin. The very phrase 'populists run elitist regimes' is so contradictory that it makes my head spin. Anyway, when I say elites the leaders are only figureheads. You're so disfigured that you try to present the idea that my not supporting our modern elites means that I don't support the concept of a leader....All societies have elites and they are inevitable....I don't support these elites...they are disconnected and globalist. It's obvious to anyone honest what 'elites' are and that's the managerial and corporate classes who make the decisions that decide and restrict our lives...more often than not for the worse. All helped by their underlings who implement the rules and laws. It's quite incredible to experience the ocean of pure nonsense you're prepared to wetly write. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 2.34pm) I didn't say you supported Putin. I said you supported populists. Putin, in his own way, is one. That populists run elitist regimes is not the least contradictory, if you stop and think for a while why that is. Try it. It might help with the dizziness. It's not the "leaders" who are the elites. It's their cronies who surround them, put them and keep them in power and profit from them. The managerial and corporate classes don't make the decisions. That's just propaganda from the right. They make decisions about their own areas of interests, but that's all. International structures don't even make the decisions. They guide, and even sometimes coerce, but it's local politicians who make the decisions. Those politicians who we in the west choose. You included. I find it incredible to experience the level of cynicism you write which is very obviously inspired by the nonsensical musings of basement experts on nothing wasting their time posting on YouTube. I have an excuse for not being actively employed and making positive contributions to the world. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 Apr 22 2.59pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I support Orban, I wasn't aware I support Putin.

The very phrase 'populists run elitist regimes' is so contradictory that it makes my head spin.

It's quite incredible to experience the ocean of pure nonsense you're prepared to wetly write.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Apr 2022 2.34pm)

I didn't say you supported Putin. I said you supported populists. Putin, in his own way, is one.

That populists run elitist regimes is not the least contradictory, if you stop and think for a while why that is. Try it. It might help with the dizziness.

It's not the "leaders" who are the elites. It's their cronies who surround them, put them and keep them in power and profit from them.

The managerial and corporate classes don't make the decisions. That's just propaganda from the right. They make decisions about their own areas of interests, but that's all. International structures don't even make the decisions. They guide, and even sometimes coerce, but it's local politicians who make the decisions. Those politicians who we in the west choose. You included.

I find it incredible to experience the level of cynicism you write which is very obviously inspired by the nonsensical musings of basement experts on nothing wasting their time posting on YouTube. I have an excuse for not being actively employed and making positive contributions to the world.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 08 Apr 22 3.03pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I didn't say you supported Putin. I said you supported populists. Putin, in his own way, is one. That populists run elitist regimes is not the least contradictory, if you stop and think for a while why that is. Try it. It might help with the dizziness. It's not the "leaders" who are the elites. It's their cronies who surround them, put them and keep them in power and profit from them. The managerial and corporate classes don't make the decisions. That's just propaganda from the right. They make decisions about their own areas of interests, but that's all. International structures don't even make the decisions. They guide, and even sometimes coerce, but it's local politicians who make the decisions. Those politicians who we in the west choose. You included. I find it incredible to experience the level of cynicism you write which is very obviously inspired by the nonsensical musings of basement experts on nothing wasting their time posting on YouTube. I have an excuse for not being actively employed and making positive contributions to the world. Literal double think. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Apr 22 3.03pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I didn't say you supported Putin. I said you supported populists. Putin, in his own way, is one.

That populists run elitist regimes is not the least contradictory, if you stop and think for a while why that is. Try it. It might help with the dizziness.

It's not the "leaders" who are the elites. It's their cronies who surround them, put them and keep them in power and profit from them.

The managerial and corporate classes don't make the decisions. That's just propaganda from the right. They make decisions about their own areas of interests, but that's all. International structures don't even make the decisions. They guide, and even sometimes coerce, but it's local politicians who make the decisions. Those politicians who we in the west choose. You included.

Literal double think.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 08 Apr 22 3.29pm
It's a lovely day outside. I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 08 Apr 22 3.29pm

Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly

It's a lovely day outside.

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Stirlingsays 08 Apr 22 3.31pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly It's a lovely day outside. Sure Forest, but it is the politics forum. That said, I think an hour or two in the garden with a couple of teas might actually be quite nice. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Apr 22 3.31pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

It's a lovely day outside.

Sure Forest, but it is the politics forum.

That said, I think an hour or two in the garden with a couple of teas might actually be quite nice.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Apr 22 3.45pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly It's a lovely day outside. Hahahaha Love it! Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Apr 22 3.45pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

It's a lovely day outside.

Hahahaha

Love it!

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Apr 22 3.48pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Literal double think. That you make decisions about your own areas of interest every day doesn't mean you make them about mine, or anyone else's. We do that collectively via our representatives. Exactly the same applies to those who manage businesses, no matter how big, or international they may be. There simply isn't the structure that allows this to happen. They don't elect representatives to take decisions for the world. They meet, together with others with influence, to review issues and to consider how best to overcome problems. That makes perfectly good sense, but the idea that there is some kind of "elitist" cohort conspiring against the interests of the people is just nonsense. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 Apr 22 3.48pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Literal double think.

That you make decisions about your own areas of interest every day doesn't mean you make them about mine, or anyone else's. We do that collectively via our representatives.

Exactly the same applies to those who manage businesses, no matter how big, or international they may be. There simply isn't the structure that allows this to happen. They don't elect representatives to take decisions for the world. They meet, together with others with influence, to review issues and to consider how best to overcome problems. That makes perfectly good sense, but the idea that there is some kind of "elitist" cohort conspiring against the interests of the people is just nonsense.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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BlueJay UK 08 Apr 22 4.00pm
Fascinating to see where my taxes go. If I work a bit harder maybe I can buy Nick Griffin a Nespresso machine. Edited by BlueJay (08 Apr 2022 4.01pm)
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BlueJay

UK 08 Apr 22 4.00pm

Fascinating to see where my taxes go. If I work a bit harder maybe I can buy Nick Griffin a Nespresso machine.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Apr 2022 4.01pm)

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steeleye20 Croydon 08 Apr 22 4.37pm
It's easy to see how there was a Hitler with the public's yearning for a 'strong leader' to make them great again etc. It's complete b****x of course but millions fall for it and they are sometimes elected with disastrous consequences. It must be in the genes, there is a definite need to prostrate before the latest incarnation. Although they are appalling people find all sorts of excuses to attach logic to their naked hatred and nationalism, why anyone would die fighting for Putin God only knows. Populists, dictators the public have a deep-seated desire to submit to them.
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steeleye20

Croydon 08 Apr 22 4.37pm

It's easy to see how there was a Hitler with the public's yearning for a 'strong leader' to make them great again etc.

It's complete b****x of course but millions fall for it and they are sometimes elected with disastrous consequences.

It must be in the genes, there is a definite need to prostrate before the latest incarnation.

Although they are appalling people find all sorts of excuses to attach logic to their naked hatred and nationalism, why anyone would die fighting for Putin God only knows.

Populists, dictators the public have a deep-seated desire to submit to them.

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BlueJay UK 08 Apr 22 4.41pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Although they are appalling people find all sorts of excuses to attach logic to their naked hatred and nationalism, why anyone would die fighting for Putin God only knows. Brainwashed mate. 'For the children' or 'For what has been done to children' written on the side of missiles that actually kill other peoples' children. Says it all. Edited by BlueJay (08 Apr 2022 4.51pm) And 'inevitably' Le Penn is (another) big Putin fan and wishes to establish a privileged partnership with Russia. She's had an anti Ukraine mantra for years and Russian money floods into her campaigns. Edited by BlueJay (08 Apr 2022 5.44pm)
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BlueJay

UK 08 Apr 22 4.41pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Although they are appalling people find all sorts of excuses to attach logic to their naked hatred and nationalism, why anyone would die fighting for Putin God only knows.

Brainwashed mate. 'For the children' or 'For what has been done to children' written on the side of missiles that actually kill other peoples' children. Says it all.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Apr 2022 4.51pm)

And 'inevitably' Le Penn is (another) big Putin fan and wishes to establish a privileged partnership with Russia. She's had an anti Ukraine mantra for years and Russian money floods into her campaigns.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Apr 2022 5.44pm)

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