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Lewis Hamilton

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 16 Nov 21 2.59pm
All valid points grumpy. You cannot compare drivers from different eras, and even statistics are skewed. How many times was Eddie Irvine and Coulthard told to back-up Michael Schumacher and not to race him ? Ron Dennis took pride in the fact that he let both Prost and Senna race on equal terms in McLaren. No team orders. That came back to bite him on the ar53 And people seemed to have missed the issue that LH started so far back because the team were caught cheating. The Mercedes car was set up to give an unfair advantage, and they were caught. Max's penalty was a joke, because he knew exactly where Mercedes were cheating and pointed it out in the quarantine area. Hamilton kind of makes himself a bit marmite because he moans like a biatch when he doesn't get his own way. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (16 Nov 2021 3.00pm) I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 16 Nov 21 2.59pm

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All valid points grumpy. You cannot compare drivers from different eras, and even statistics are skewed. How many times was Eddie Irvine and Coulthard told to back-up Michael Schumacher and not to race him ?
Ron Dennis took pride in the fact that he let both Prost and Senna race on equal terms in McLaren. No team orders. That came back to bite him on the ar53
And people seemed to have missed the issue that LH started so far back because the team were caught cheating. The Mercedes car was set up to give an unfair advantage, and they were caught.
Max's penalty was a joke, because he knew exactly where Mercedes were cheating and pointed it out in the quarantine area.

Hamilton kind of makes himself a bit marmite because he moans like a biatch when he doesn't get his own way.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (16 Nov 2021 3.00pm)

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CrazyBadger Ware 16 Nov 21 3.00pm
Agree that his new engine gave him an advantage - but that wouldn't have helped too much in the first few Laps of The sprint race, and then again in the race Proper, when he was in 20th/10th, and had to work his way though the field pretty quickly and Cleanly. your being way too harsh, and simplistic when you say that he's just won becuase of his car. It's a team effort - he has to Relay the information to the team to help set up the cars; there's only so much telemetry data will get you. Drivers help develop the car. A good driver will help fine tune the car to get the most out of it based on his driving style. I really liked Hamilton when he burst onto the scene.. then he proved himself to be a right c*ck for a while. However, in recent seasons, i do beleive he's grown through it, and has lost of lot of what made him so entitled and childish. That's Max's and Red Bulls job now. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 16 Nov 21 3.00pm

Agree that his new engine gave him an advantage - but that wouldn't have helped too much in the first few Laps of The sprint race, and then again in the race Proper, when he was in 20th/10th, and had to work his way though the field pretty quickly and Cleanly.

your being way too harsh, and simplistic when you say that he's just won becuase of his car. It's a team effort - he has to Relay the information to the team to help set up the cars; there's only so much telemetry data will get you. Drivers help develop the car. A good driver will help fine tune the car to get the most out of it based on his driving style.

I really liked Hamilton when he burst onto the scene.. then he proved himself to be a right c*ck for a while.
However, in recent seasons, i do beleive he's grown through it, and has lost of lot of what made him so entitled and childish. That's Max's and Red Bulls job now.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 16 Nov 21 3.43pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger Agree that his new engine gave him an advantage - but that wouldn't have helped too much in the first few Laps of The sprint race, and then again in the race Proper, when he was in 20th/10th, and had to work his way though the field pretty quickly and Cleanly. your being way too harsh, and simplistic when you say that he's just won becuase of his car. It's a team effort - he has to Relay the information to the team to help set up the cars; there's only so much telemetry data will get you. Drivers help develop the car. A good driver will help fine tune the car to get the most out of it based on his driving style. I really liked Hamilton when he burst onto the scene.. then he proved himself to be a right c*ck for a while. However, in recent seasons, i do beleive he's grown through it, and has lost of lot of what made him so entitled and childish. That's Max's and Red Bulls job now. You clearly do not understand F1. His new engine and drs was worth over 20mph. Those cars at the back are slow this is why in every race they are lapped. (this one everyone upto 6th was) qualify times LH (1) - 1:07.934 Sainz (5) - 1:08.826 That is a massive gap and you wonder how he managed to get to 5th when he is almost 1 sec faster per lap and this is not even including the drs etc. Look at the full race LH goes past Max and a few laps later he is ahead by almost 10sec. I am not saying he is not a top driver he is massively over rated. Bottas has shown him up at times and well being beaten by Rosberg that sums it up really. (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 16 Nov 21 3.43pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

You clearly do not understand F1.

His new engine and drs was worth over 20mph.

Those cars at the back are slow this is why in every race they are lapped. (this one everyone upto 6th was)

qualify times

LH (1) - 1:07.934
Sainz (5) - 1:08.826

That is a massive gap and you wonder how he managed to get to 5th when he is almost 1 sec faster per lap and this is not even including the drs etc.

Look at the full race LH goes past Max and a few laps later he is ahead by almost 10sec.

I am not saying he is not a top driver he is massively over rated.

Bottas has shown him up at times and well being beaten by Rosberg that sums it up really.

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YT Oxford 16 Nov 21 3.54pm
I think another thing that grates is that when he wins, he's the best driver the world has ever seen, but when he doesn't it's the fault of the car or the technical team and he's very quick to point that out or show his displeasure. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 16 Nov 21 3.54pm

I think another thing that grates is that when he wins, he's the best driver the world has ever seen, but when he doesn't it's the fault of the car or the technical team and he's very quick to point that out or show his displeasure.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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MrRobbo Chaldon 16 Nov 21 4.40pm
I think its pretty hard to say that the guy is overrated. The best drivers are trusted to drive the most competitive cars, and the fact that he’s always been in the running, is credit to the trust that the teams have put in him. He’s also consistently outperformed every teammate he has ever had. Just look at VB, the guy looks a broken man. Being show up by Bottas or Rosberg is not really true, of course they are going to win the odd race. Lewis won over double the races NR did. Granted he is a bit annoying.
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 16 Nov 21 4.40pm

I think its pretty hard to say that the guy is overrated. The best drivers are trusted to drive the most competitive cars, and the fact that he’s always been in the running, is credit to the trust that the teams have put in him. He’s also consistently outperformed every teammate he has ever had. Just look at VB, the guy looks a broken man.

Being show up by Bottas or Rosberg is not really true, of course they are going to win the odd race. Lewis won over double the races NR did.

Granted he is a bit annoying.

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 16 Nov 21 5.23pm
Originally posted by YT I think another thing that grates is that when he wins, he's the best driver the world has ever seen, but when he doesn't it's the fault of the car or the technical team and he's very quick to point that out or show his displeasure. I agree and people appear to have forgotten how he has accused the stewards of being biased even tried to be funny blame the race card. Originally posted by MrRobbo I think its pretty hard to say that the guy is overrated. The best drivers are trusted to drive the most competitive cars, and the fact that he’s always been in the running, is credit to the trust that the teams have put in him. He’s also consistently outperformed every teammate he has ever had. Just look at VB, the guy looks a broken man. Being show up by Bottas or Rosberg is not really true, of course they are going to win the odd race. Lewis won over double the races NR did. Granted he is a bit annoying. Not hard to say at all I just said it. Look back at when his Mclaren car was not the best he was awful how many times did he crash and not perform you even see it now the media etc hypes him as a proper racer yet when he is in the pack without the big car advantage he doesn't do anything. Not true look at many drivers who are rated and they do not have the best cars not every driver can but the top drivers will out perform the cars not make excuses like LH does. One of the big things was when Russel had a chance to step in for one race and he made Bottas look stupid yet Mercedes still kept him (I know this will change next season but dont expect Russel to go against LH the car will be built around LH) Rosberg beat him to the title that is not the odd race and what did he do threaten to quit. (after this Mercedes kiss his a** and put a guy in they know wouldn't compete) (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 16 Nov 21 5.23pm

Originally posted by YT

I agree and people appear to have forgotten how he has accused the stewards of being biased even tried to be funny blame the race card.

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Being show up by Bottas or Rosberg is not really true, of course they are going to win the odd race. Lewis won over double the races NR did.

Granted he is a bit annoying.

Not hard to say at all I just said it.

Look back at when his Mclaren car was not the best he was awful how many times did he crash and not perform you even see it now the media etc hypes him as a proper racer yet when he is in the pack without the big car advantage he doesn't do anything.

Not true look at many drivers who are rated and they do not have the best cars not every driver can but the top drivers will out perform the cars not make excuses like LH does.

One of the big things was when Russel had a chance to step in for one race and he made Bottas look stupid yet Mercedes still kept him (I know this will change next season but dont expect Russel to go against LH the car will be built around LH)

Rosberg beat him to the title that is not the odd race and what did he do threaten to quit. (after this Mercedes kiss his a** and put a guy in they know wouldn't compete)

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Helmet46 Croydon 16 Nov 21 7.39pm
Originally posted by grumpymort Not hard to say at all I just said it. Look back at when his Mclaren car was not the best he was awful how many times did he crash and not perform you even see it now the media etc hypes him as a proper racer yet when he is in the pack without the big car advantage he doesn't do anything. Not true look at many drivers who are rated and they do not have the best cars not every driver can but the top drivers will out perform the cars not make excuses like LH does. One of the big things was when Russel had a chance to step in for one race and he made Bottas look stupid yet Mercedes still kept him (I know this will change next season but dont expect Russel to go against LH the car will be built around LH) Rosberg beat him to the title that is not the odd race and what did he do threaten to quit. (after this Mercedes kiss his a** and put a guy in they know wouldn't compete) Earlier you said that McLaren was a top 3 team and he’s never won in an awful car as he’s never had one? The 2009 and 2011 McLaren was a bit of a dog by all accounts. In that period 2009 to 2011 he managed the same number of wins as retirements ( 8 ). He also had a few podiums. I’m no Hamilton fanboy, my hero was Senna, but I appreciate his skill and I reckon that 7 titles is a massive achievement. Rosberg beat him to the title but still won fewer races. But I don’t think the bloke will ever be able to win with some F1 fans really. Edited by Helmet46 (16 Nov 2021 7.41pm)
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Helmet46

Croydon 16 Nov 21 7.39pm

Originally posted by grumpymort

Not hard to say at all I just said it.

Not true look at many drivers who are rated and they do not have the best cars not every driver can but the top drivers will out perform the cars not make excuses like LH does.

Rosberg beat him to the title that is not the odd race and what did he do threaten to quit. (after this Mercedes kiss his a** and put a guy in they know wouldn't compete)

Earlier you said that McLaren was a top 3 team and he’s never won in an awful car as he’s never had one?
The 2009 and 2011 McLaren was a bit of a dog by all accounts. In that period 2009 to 2011 he managed the same number of wins as retirements ( 8 ). He also had a few podiums.
I’m no Hamilton fanboy, my hero was Senna, but I appreciate his skill and I reckon that 7 titles is a massive achievement. Rosberg beat him to the title but still won fewer races. But I don’t think the bloke will ever be able to win with some F1 fans really.

Edited by Helmet46 (16 Nov 2021 7.41pm)

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 17 Nov 21 12.17am
Originally posted by Helmet46 Earlier you said that McLaren was a top 3 team and he’s never won in an awful car as he’s never had one? The 2009 and 2011 McLaren was a bit of a dog by all accounts. In that period 2009 to 2011 he managed the same number of wins as retirements ( 8 ). He also had a few podiums. I’m no Hamilton fanboy, my hero was Senna, but I appreciate his skill and I reckon that 7 titles is a massive achievement. Rosberg beat him to the title but still won fewer races. But I don’t think the bloke will ever be able to win with some F1 fans really. Edited by Helmet46 (16 Nov 2021 7.41pm) Mclaren was a top 3 team. This doesn't mean that every race will be an easy ride and some tracks they would struggle also when you have drivers making mistakes which LH did a fair bit it doesn't help. 7 is not massive with the car he has had look at Seb and how many he won with one team that was in the same position what has he done since then nothing. If LH went to lets say Williams and he went out got results then he would show what he is made of he wont ever do that. Take a look back at all the great drivers none of them was just handed great cars. Race wins meaningless its a marathon not a sprint in the old days wins really did matter because of the way the points worked. I will say it again I never claimed he didnt have talent he is just over rated. As a person as well he is a pr**k who puts on an act a lot of people have fallen for you look at the last year or so with what he has been coming out with sums up his type of attitude. (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 17 Nov 21 12.17am

Originally posted by Helmet46

Edited by Helmet46 (16 Nov 2021 7.41pm)

Mclaren was a top 3 team.

This doesn't mean that every race will be an easy ride and some tracks they would struggle also when you have drivers making mistakes which LH did a fair bit it doesn't help.

7 is not massive with the car he has had look at Seb and how many he won with one team that was in the same position what has he done since then nothing.

If LH went to lets say Williams and he went out got results then he would show what he is made of he wont ever do that.

Take a look back at all the great drivers none of them was just handed great cars.

Race wins meaningless its a marathon not a sprint in the old days wins really did matter because of the way the points worked.

I will say it again I never claimed he didnt have talent he is just over rated.

As a person as well he is a pr**k who puts on an act a lot of people have fallen for you look at the last year or so with what he has been coming out with sums up his type of attitude.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 17 Nov 21 3.52am
Originally posted by grumpymort Not hard to say at all I just said it. Look back at when his Mclaren car was not the best he was awful how many times did he crash and not perform you even see it now the media etc hypes him as a proper racer yet when he is in the pack without the big car advantage he doesn't do anything. Not true look at many drivers who are rated and they do not have the best cars not every driver can but the top drivers will out perform the cars not make excuses like LH does. One of the big things was when Russel had a chance to step in for one race and he made Bottas look stupid yet Mercedes still kept him (I know this will change next season but dont expect Russel to go against LH the car will be built around LH) Rosberg beat him to the title that is not the odd race and what did he do threaten to quit. (after this Mercedes kiss his a and put a guy in they know wouldn't compete) What a crock of s*e, easy to see where youre coming from!!!
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 17 Nov 21 3.52am

Originally posted by grumpymort

Not hard to say at all I just said it.

Not true look at many drivers who are rated and they do not have the best cars not every driver can but the top drivers will out perform the cars not make excuses like LH does.

Rosberg beat him to the title that is not the odd race and what did he do threaten to quit. (after this Mercedes kiss his a** and put a guy in they know wouldn't compete)

What a crock of s***e, easy to see where youre coming from!!!

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Helmet46 Croydon 17 Nov 21 7.42am
Originally posted by grumpymort Mclaren was a top 3 team. This doesn't mean that every race will be an easy ride and some tracks they would struggle also when you have drivers making mistakes which LH did a fair bit it doesn't help. 7 is not massive with the car he has had look at Seb and how many he won with one team that was in the same position what has he done since then nothing. If LH went to lets say Williams and he went out got results then he would show what he is made of he wont ever do that. Take a look back at all the great drivers none of them was just handed great cars. Race wins meaningless its a marathon not a sprint in the old days wins really did matter because of the way the points worked. I will say it again I never claimed he didnt have talent he is just over rated. As a person as well he is a pr**k who puts on an act a lot of people have fallen for you look at the last year or so with what he has been coming out with sums up his type of attitude. Personally I can only think of 3 maybe 4 years since 1976 when the World champ didn’t have the best car. So yes, 7 is massive given that only 1 other person has ever done it. Experts in F1 state that that McLaren car was a dog. Ferrari are a top 3 team now but I haven’t seen their drivers win a race this season or is that somehow different? Before LH went to Mercedes, Rosberg outperformed MS in the same car. LH outperformed Rosberg over the period they were teammates at Mercedes. That Mercedes car did little in his first season there but you credit MS and NR with all the success and nothing to LH. So if LH were to go to Williams and win a race, you would simply give the credit to the development work done by the current drivers as you did with Mercedes. As I say - bloke can’t win. Edited by Helmet46 (17 Nov 2021 7.55am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 17 Nov 21 7.42am

Originally posted by grumpymort

Mclaren was a top 3 team.

This doesn't mean that every race will be an easy ride and some tracks they would struggle also when you have drivers making mistakes which LH did a fair bit it doesn't help.

7 is not massive with the car he has had look at Seb and how many he won with one team that was in the same position what has he done since then nothing.

If LH went to lets say Williams and he went out got results then he would show what he is made of he wont ever do that.

Take a look back at all the great drivers none of them was just handed great cars.

Race wins meaningless its a marathon not a sprint in the old days wins really did matter because of the way the points worked.

I will say it again I never claimed he didnt have talent he is just over rated.

As a person as well he is a pr**k who puts on an act a lot of people have fallen for you look at the last year or so with what he has been coming out with sums up his type of attitude.

Personally I can only think of 3 maybe 4 years since 1976 when the World champ didn’t have the best car. So yes, 7 is massive given that only 1 other person has ever done it. Experts in F1 state that that McLaren car was a dog.
Ferrari are a top 3 team now but I haven’t seen their drivers win a race this season or is that somehow different?
Before LH went to Mercedes, Rosberg outperformed MS in the same car. LH outperformed Rosberg over the period they were teammates at Mercedes.
That Mercedes car did little in his first season there but you credit MS and NR with all the success and nothing to LH. So if LH were to go to Williams and win a race, you would simply give the credit to the development work done by the current drivers as you did with Mercedes. As I say - bloke can’t win.

Edited by Helmet46 (17 Nov 2021 7.55am)

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CrazyBadger Ware 17 Nov 21 9.00am
Originally posted by grumpymort You clearly do not understand F1. His new engine and drs was worth over 20mph. Those cars at the back are slow this is why in every race they are lapped. (this one everyone upto 6th was) qualify times LH (1) - 1:07.934 Sainz (5) - 1:08.826 That is a massive gap and you wonder how he managed to get to 5th when he is almost 1 sec faster per lap and this is not even including the drs etc. Look at the full race LH goes past Max and a few laps later he is ahead by almost 10sec. I am not saying he is not a top driver he is massively over rated. Bottas has shown him up at times and well being beaten by Rosberg that sums it up really. Still gotta Get past a pack of drivers not letting you by without crashing out. Very different to chasing down someone who your 1 sec quicker. - which I agree would be easy for anyone in that car could do It with that advantage. If Verstappen was in the Same boat (his car is quicker than them too), I have no doubt he would have done the same, but as he's not been dominant, would he have received the same criticism? Just think your being overly disrespectful to a man who has achieved more than anyone ever has in the sport. How ever much you dislike him, he deserves credit for his achievements. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 17 Nov 21 9.00am

Originally posted by grumpymort

You clearly do not understand F1.

His new engine and drs was worth over 20mph.

Those cars at the back are slow this is why in every race they are lapped. (this one everyone upto 6th was)

qualify times

LH (1) - 1:07.934
Sainz (5) - 1:08.826

That is a massive gap and you wonder how he managed to get to 5th when he is almost 1 sec faster per lap and this is not even including the drs etc.

Look at the full race LH goes past Max and a few laps later he is ahead by almost 10sec.

I am not saying he is not a top driver he is massively over rated.

Bottas has shown him up at times and well being beaten by Rosberg that sums it up really.

Still gotta Get past a pack of drivers not letting you by without crashing out. Very different to chasing down someone who your 1 sec quicker. - which I agree would be easy for anyone in that car could do It with that advantage. If Verstappen was in the Same boat (his car is quicker than them too), I have no doubt he would have done the same, but as he's not been dominant, would he have received the same criticism?

Just think your being overly disrespectful to a man who has achieved more than anyone ever has in the sport.
How ever much you dislike him, he deserves credit for his achievements.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Badger11 Beckenham 17 Nov 21 9.03am
Don't like his personality and don't watch the sport. However greatness for me is all about longevity and Hamilton has won many races and titles so that has to count for something. If he is that much of a mediocre driver why are they paying him a fortune surely he would have been replaced by a younger cheaper driver. Anyway that's my 2 cents. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 17 Nov 21 9.03am

Don't like his personality and don't watch the sport. However greatness for me is all about longevity and Hamilton has won many races and titles so that has to count for something.

If he is that much of a mediocre driver why are they paying him a fortune surely he would have been replaced by a younger cheaper driver.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

One more point

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