We should acknowledge, but of course never will, that that fascism was defeated in the WW2 by the Soviet Union, and that we are the beneficiaries of that.

That is certainly not to detract from our efforts, it is simply the truth.

Indeed the Soviet Union did play the largest part and 20 million of them died and you are right we should acknowledge that.

Of course if Stalin hadn't wiped out the entire military staff prior to the war and had listened to his own experts they might have been better prepared and not have lost as many people.

On a side note I have read a number of books on Stalin recently the BBC showed the movie "The Death Of Stalin". It was billed as a black comedy but actually was very accurate to the events surrounding his death. The leadership were a disgusting group who were terrified of Stalin. Beria used to kidnap young girls and rape them, if they were lucky they lived.

Anyway check it out on IPlayer surprisingly good for the BBC.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Dec 2020 1.00pm)

One more point

For many of them it would have been difficult to tell the difference between in being under Nazi occupation or living under Communism.

Edited by georgenorman (28 Dec 2020 1.45pm)

There was a big debate in the Soviet Union after the war, the main premise being that they won the war without the Allies help.

This is mainly the view even today, but they do acknowledge the help particularly from USA armanents factories.

But considering the sheer scale of the eastern front and the fact that 87% of German production was concentrated there, it is an epic victory for the soviets.

it is difficult to imagine they would have been successful with a Tsar they would simply have chucked it in.

And for us, if the Soviet Union had not been successful, Hitler and his superior military machine would have returned to fighting us on one front.

When FDR said thank you Uncle Joe that's the reason IMO.

The truthful versions of WW2 were never released in the mainstream. They got the Hollywood version. If you want the truth you have to go looking and it makes what was already horrific orders of magnitude worst.

The British talk of the Blitz and rations and of losing relatives....I don't want to diminish that but when you compare how much the British suffered to where the decisive stuff happened it pales into comparison.

It's certainly true that the Soviets killed the majority of Germans.....when I last looked they killed something like 4 out of 5 Germans who died. Like WW1 and indeed most large wars it came down to attrition and so those most ruthless and with the most human capital ultimately won....and then wrote the narrative.

But there have been enough honest historians over the decades for the truth...that's rarely said in the mainstream to emerge that the Soviets won the majority of WW2.

However, the Germans killed at least double of them and if you factor in civilians probably four times, though the real figures will never be known.....Indeed, the Soviets won pretty much the same way Vietham survived. Insomuch as they didn't care and just threw endless armies of unwilling human capital at the Germans until that and the winters turned the tide.

The Germans were a nation of 80 million and with the Romanians and others collectively about a hundred fighting the Soviets.....a similarly disgusting leadership willing to butcher their own....who had hundreds of millions more.

Hitler gambled as he knew that he had a year to defeat the Soviets and once 1942 was up Germany's defeat was an ever increasing certainty.

But let it be said that as much as Hitler's regime was a nightmare, Stalin's was actually worse in terms of murdering innocence.....We slept with one devil to defeat another.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Dec 2020 3.03pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

That's true....but it doesn't as yet come with the bullet at the back of the head.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)