Bamford pointing.

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Bamford pointing.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Nov 20 10.52am
In bygone days criticism was directed at the referee and assistants. Nowadays not only are the on-field officials criticised but VAR as well and lately "Handball" has entered the equation. I recall some asserting that the introduction of VAR would remove controversy and we would have nothing controversial to deliberate on down the local Public House!
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Nov 20 10.52am

In bygone days criticism was directed at the referee and assistants. Nowadays not only are the on-field officials criticised but VAR as well and lately "Handball" has entered the equation.

I recall some asserting that the introduction of VAR would remove controversy and we would have nothing controversial to deliberate on down the local Public House!

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beak croydon 09 Nov 20 11.16am
Originally posted by JohnB It wasn't. The FA website states: The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. Unless it's Maradonna.
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beak

croydon 09 Nov 20 11.16am

Originally posted by JohnB

It wasn't.

The FA website states: The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.

Unless it's Maradonna.

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beak croydon 09 Nov 20 11.19am
Originally posted by JohnB Pretty certain that the majority of managers would completely disagree with you and want their players to communicate and show where they want the ball. Absurd that it was given offside, not that a player was showing where he wanted it. I cannot remember Toshack/Keegan or Wright/Bright needing to point out the flippin' obvious place where they wanted the ball.
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beak

croydon 09 Nov 20 11.19am

Originally posted by JohnB

Pretty certain that the majority of managers would completely disagree with you and want their players to communicate and show where they want the ball.

Absurd that it was given offside, not that a player was showing where he wanted it.

I cannot remember Toshack/Keegan or Wright/Bright needing to point out the flippin' obvious place where they wanted the ball.

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 09 Nov 20 11.24am
Originally posted by Willo It was offside as per the Law. This was a factual VAR decision as opposed to some of the subjective decisions which have also caused controversy. I replied when you made exactly the same remark on the Eze thread but you never came back to it. Bamford was not offside. Originally posted by Phil’s Barber Willo, this is not correct. Have you actually seen the on screen analysis? Clyne’s left arm definitely played Bamford onside as the line was drawn from the wrong position on the No 17’s sleeve. Kouyate also most likely played him onside too with either his left boot or left arse cheek, both of which were obscured from the camera by Bamford and as such not used for the calculations. VAR got it wrong...again!!!
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 09 Nov 20 11.24am

Originally posted by Willo

It was offside as per the Law.
This was a factual VAR decision as opposed to some of the subjective decisions which have also caused controversy.

I replied when you made exactly the same remark on the Eze thread but you never came back to it. Bamford was not offside.

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

Willo, this is not correct. Have you actually seen the on screen analysis?

Clyne’s left arm definitely played Bamford onside as the line was drawn from the wrong position on the No 17’s sleeve. Kouyate also most likely played him onside too with either his left boot or left arse cheek, both of which were obscured from the camera by Bamford and as such not used for the calculations.

VAR got it wrong...again!!!

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 09 Nov 20 11.26am
Originally posted by beak I still don't understand why Bamford needed to point,the other Leeds players should know from the training ground where he needs the ball.A schoolboy error and one that Bielsa should have ironed out by now. Must've been something he's picked up at Leeds. Bamford in a Palace shirt was always pointless. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 09 Nov 20 11.26am

Originally posted by beak

I still don't understand why Bamford needed to point,the other Leeds players should know from the training ground where he needs the ball.A schoolboy error and one that Bielsa should have ironed out by now.

Must've been something he's picked up at Leeds.

Bamford in a Palace shirt was always pointless.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 09 Nov 20 11.30am
I also posted this on the Palace v Leeds match thread... Originally posted by Phil’s Barber I know we won and I am delighted to have sealed a 4-1 victory and three points but I cannot help feeling that Leeds were robbed of a perfectly good goal and the injustices of VAR have to be highlighted for the benefit of all EPL teams in the long run. Shockley Park allegedly have finer lines than the ones we are shown on the TV (Why aren’t we shown those?!) but yesterday, on the visual from the VAR team, the line drawn on Nathaniel Clyne was clearly about 5-6 inches wrong, having been drawn from the inside of the sleeve and not the outside of the sleeve, which was also away from his body. This would have confirmed that Bamford was onside. There is also the position of Kouyate (partially obscured by Bamford) and even his furthest forward foot is goal side of Bamford, a line drawn from his left boot or the edge of his left hip would likely have also played Bamford on side. It is not just the interpretation of the laws. VAR is badly flawed and is getting crucial decisions wrong. With the closeness of the decision and the lines shown on the onscreen visual, if the dotted line had correctly been drawn on the outside of Clyne’s left arm then Bamford would’ve been shown to be comfortably onside. Edited by Phil’s Barber (09 Nov 2020 11.31am) Attachment: A8E89900-5A98-4FCF-8342-CBA38978108C.jpeg (104.54Kb)
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 09 Nov 20 11.30am

I also posted this on the Palace v Leeds match thread...

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

I know we won and I am delighted to have sealed a 4-1 victory and three points but I cannot help feeling that Leeds were robbed of a perfectly good goal and the injustices of VAR have to be highlighted for the benefit of all EPL teams in the long run.

Shockley Park allegedly have finer lines than the ones we are shown on the TV (Why aren’t we shown those?!) but yesterday, on the visual from the VAR team, the line drawn on Nathaniel Clyne was clearly about 5-6 inches wrong, having been drawn from the inside of the sleeve and not the outside of the sleeve, which was also away from his body. This would have confirmed that Bamford was onside.

There is also the position of Kouyate (partially obscured by Bamford) and even his furthest forward foot is goal side of Bamford, a line drawn from his left boot or the edge of his left hip would likely have also played Bamford on side.
It is not just the interpretation of the laws. VAR is badly flawed and is getting crucial decisions wrong.

With the closeness of the decision and the lines shown on the onscreen visual, if the dotted line had correctly been drawn on the outside of Clyne’s left arm then Bamford would’ve been shown to be comfortably onside.

Edited by Phil’s Barber (09 Nov 2020 11.31am)

Attachment: A8E89900-5A98-4FCF-8342-CBA38978108C.jpeg (104.54Kb)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Nov 20 11.36am
Originally posted by Phil’s Barber According to VAR, taking into consideration the T-Shirt line etc he was deemed offside.Thank goodness for that! There has been debate in the past about the accuracy of the technology in such circumstances.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Nov 20 11.36am

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

According to VAR, taking into consideration the T-Shirt line etc he was deemed offside.Thank goodness for that!
There has been debate in the past about the accuracy of the technology in such circumstances.

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Eaglecoops CR3 09 Nov 20 11.59am
The problem with all of these marginal offsides is there are too many variables. 1) where is the camera positioned relative to the line of offside and how have they compensated for that. 2) where were the players at the exact moment the ball left the passers foot as opposed to when they think it left his foot. 3) has the vertical line down been drawn correctly in terms of where exactly on the body is influencing play. It should be clear and obvious errors only otherwise the onfield officials decision should stand. In fact the only influence Stockley Park should have is to ask the ref to review his decision if it’s close and they think he has badly got something wrong.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 09 Nov 20 11.59am

The problem with all of these marginal offsides is there are too many variables.

1) where is the camera positioned relative to the line of offside and how have they compensated for that.
2) where were the players at the exact moment the ball left the passers foot as opposed to when they think it left his foot.
3) has the vertical line down been drawn correctly in terms of where exactly on the body is influencing play.

It should be clear and obvious errors only otherwise the onfield officials decision should stand. In fact the only influence Stockley Park should have is to ask the ref to review his decision if it’s close and they think he has badly got something wrong.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 09 Nov 20 12.00pm
Originally posted by Willo In bygone days criticism was directed at the referee and assistants. Nowadays not only are the on-field officials criticised but VAR as well and lately "Handball" has entered the equation. I recall some asserting that the introduction of VAR would remove controversy and we would have nothing controversial to deliberate on down the local Public House! I wasn't one of them ! I thought VAR would result in the some you win, some you lose scenario that pre VAR refs decisions provoked. VAR in itself is ok if administrated correctly ( which it isn't all of the time ), but the changes in handball and offside rules are killing the game. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 09 Nov 20 12.00pm

Originally posted by Willo

In bygone days criticism was directed at the referee and assistants. Nowadays not only are the on-field officials criticised but VAR as well and lately "Handball" has entered the equation.

I recall some asserting that the introduction of VAR would remove controversy and we would have nothing controversial to deliberate on down the local Public House!

I wasn't one of them ! I thought VAR would result in the some you win, some you lose scenario that pre VAR refs decisions provoked.

VAR in itself is ok if administrated correctly ( which it isn't all of the time ), but the changes in handball and offside rules are killing the game.

Old, Ungifted and White

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buzby1 Devon 09 Nov 20 2.00pm
Originally posted by mezzer Must've been something he's picked up at Leeds. Bamford in a Palace shirt was always pointless. Very good. Made me smile.
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buzby1

Devon 09 Nov 20 2.00pm

Originally posted by mezzer

Must've been something he's picked up at Leeds.

Bamford in a Palace shirt was always pointless.

Very good. Made me smile.

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CrazyBadger Ware 09 Nov 20 2.31pm
Originally posted by Phil’s Barber I also posted this on the Palace v Leeds match thread... With the closeness of the decision and the lines shown on the onscreen visual, if the dotted line had correctly been drawn on the outside of Clyne’s left arm then Bamford would’ve been shown to be comfortably onside. Edited by Phil’s Barber (09 Nov 2020 11.31am) I think your evidence is flawed as it's on a 2D screen... I think Clynes arm in your Pic is more along the line of the horizontal, so it's not necessarily closer to the goal. Having said that the dotted lines are clearly going to different points on the arms of both players. Bamfords looks like its on his Elbow, and his arm clearly was closer to goal. A dotted line correctly positioned on his arm would show onside. Just goes to show how much of a cr@p system it is. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 09 Nov 20 2.31pm

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

I also posted this on the Palace v Leeds match thread...

Edited by Phil’s Barber (09 Nov 2020 11.31am)

I think your evidence is flawed as it's on a 2D screen...

I think Clynes arm in your Pic is more along the line of the horizontal, so it's not necessarily closer to the goal.

Having said that the dotted lines are clearly going to different points on the arms of both players. Bamfords looks like its on his Elbow, and his arm clearly was closer to goal. A dotted line correctly positioned on his arm would show onside.

Just goes to show how much of a cr@p system it is.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 09 Nov 20 3.41pm
Originally posted by Willo According to VAR, taking into consideration the T-Shirt line etc he was deemed offside.Thank goodness for that! There has been debate in the past about the accuracy of the technology in such circumstances. He might have been ‘deemed’ offside but he certainly wasn’t offside. VAR made a mistake which we benefitted from but in two weeks time we could be on the receiving end of an equally bad decision, so long as VAR is persisted with for fine margin offsides and without the technology being up to it. You can clearly see the line drawn from Clyne’s T-shirt sleeve is on the wrong side. This line, when dropped down and compared with the attacker, shows that Bamford is fractionally offside. Were this line drawn in the correct position (the left edge of the T-shirt line nearest the goal) then you can clearly see that this would’ve dropped goal-side of Bamford's line and confirmed that he was onside.
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 09 Nov 20 3.41pm

Originally posted by Willo

He might have been ‘deemed’ offside but he certainly wasn’t offside.

VAR made a mistake which we benefitted from but in two weeks time we could be on the receiving end of an equally bad decision, so long as VAR is persisted with for fine margin offsides and without the technology being up to it.

You can clearly see the line drawn from Clyne’s T-shirt sleeve is on the wrong side. This line, when dropped down and compared with the attacker, shows that Bamford is fractionally offside. Were this line drawn in the correct position (the left edge of the T-shirt line nearest the goal) then you can clearly see that this would’ve dropped goal-side of Bamford's line and confirmed that he was onside.

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