Labour Party Supporters: Should Corbyn Step Down?

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Labour Party Supporters: Should Corbyn Step Down?

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Matov 22 Sep 19 9.33pm
I rather like the policy on private schools. Perhaps if our political elite had to put their own sprogs through the state system, they might actually value it. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

22 Sep 19 9.33pm

I rather like the policy on private schools. Perhaps if our political elite had to put their own sprogs through the state system, they might actually value it.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Sep 19 9.40pm
Originally posted by jeeagles He definitely needed to go. He's awful. He stood for remain and lost. Stood for a GE and lost. He got hammered at the EU and local elections. Labour have tried to get rid of him twice but cant. I noticed today they are still using the "for the many, not he few" tagline that lost the last election. Friends in politics have told me that momentum do not care how many elections they lose, just as long as they have a far left Labour party. Momentum have a great deal to answer for. It's their take over of the local labour parties that has caused the lurch to the left and the consequential unelectability of the Labour party. This in turn has given the right in the Conservatives a free pass to take over themselves. Without an effective opposition what is there to fear? These are dark days in our political history. Where do the large numbers of moderates like me find a home? The LibDems are the obvious an answer but in many ways an unsatisfactory one unless they will allow themselves to be remodelled. Oh for some charisma! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Sep 19 9.40pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

He definitely needed to go. He's awful.
He stood for remain and lost.
Stood for a GE and lost.
He got hammered at the EU and local elections.

Labour have tried to get rid of him twice but cant.

I noticed today they are still using the "for the many, not he few" tagline that lost the last election.

Friends in politics have told me that momentum do not care how many elections they lose, just as long as they have a far left Labour party.

Momentum have a great deal to answer for. It's their take over of the local labour parties that has caused the lurch to the left and the consequential unelectability of the Labour party. This in turn has given the right in the Conservatives a free pass to take over themselves. Without an effective opposition what is there to fear? These are dark days in our political history. Where do the large numbers of moderates like me find a home? The LibDems are the obvious an answer but in many ways an unsatisfactory one unless they will allow themselves to be remodelled. Oh for some charisma!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 22 Sep 19 9.58pm
Originally posted by Matov I rather like the policy on private schools. Perhaps if our political elite had to put their own sprogs through the state system, they might actually value it. Yep, I like them getting rid of OFSTED too. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Sep 19 9.58pm

Originally posted by Matov

I rather like the policy on private schools. Perhaps if our political elite had to put their own sprogs through the state system, they might actually value it.

Yep, I like them getting rid of OFSTED too.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Sep 19 10.14pm
Manifestos are a fantasy. Who believes them anymore? The Labour Party have shown that they will say anything and everything near election time.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Sep 19 10.14pm

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Manifestos are a fantasy. Who believes them anymore?

The Labour Party have shown that they will say anything and everything near election time.

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becky over the moon 22 Sep 19 10.32pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Although not a Labour Party supporter, anymore than I am a Conservative Party supporter in their current guise, as I believe they have a vital constitutional role to play at the moment might I be permitted to comment? I believe it's essential, and in the wider public interest, for Corbyn to be replaced and for Labour to ditch it's leftward drift and reclaim the sensible middle ground as soon as possible. Beating populism in the UK, ensuring the supremacy of Parliament over the executive remains as a fundamental pillar of our system, and ensuring that if we are to exit the EU we do so on a basis that causes the least harm is a duty on the Labour party which transcends normal politics. They cannot do that while they fight internal battles. I would like them to go much further and establish electoral pacts to ensure that the "no no deal/remain" vote isn't split thus allowing Johnson to creep in. That might well create a Tory/Brexit party alliance but at least then we can all be very clear what is at stake at the forthcoming GE. Before that of course we need to get beyond Oct 31st unscathed and see what the bunch of anti-democrats do after the Supreme Court verdict. Labour though needs to man up and do what's needed. There are some decent people in their ranks, alongside some less appealing and they need to be strong. The problem is their internal systems which hand far too much influence to the membership and not sufficient to the MPs. So whether they can actually do it is a very open question. But,....but....their MP's are representatives, not delegates so they should not be influenced at all by the membership but do the very best they can for all their constituency members, whether they voted for them or not. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 22 Sep 19 10.32pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Although not a Labour Party supporter, anymore than I am a Conservative Party supporter in their current guise, as I believe they have a vital constitutional role to play at the moment might I be permitted to comment?

I believe it's essential, and in the wider public interest, for Corbyn to be replaced and for Labour to ditch it's leftward drift and reclaim the sensible middle ground as soon as possible.

Beating populism in the UK, ensuring the supremacy of Parliament over the executive remains as a fundamental pillar of our system, and ensuring that if we are to exit the EU we do so on a basis that causes the least harm is a duty on the Labour party which transcends normal politics.

They cannot do that while they fight internal battles.

I would like them to go much further and establish electoral pacts to ensure that the "no no deal/remain" vote isn't split thus allowing Johnson to creep in. That might well create a Tory/Brexit party alliance but at least then we can all be very clear what is at stake at the forthcoming GE.

Before that of course we need to get beyond Oct 31st unscathed and see what the bunch of anti-democrats do after the Supreme Court verdict.

Labour though needs to man up and do what's needed. There are some decent people in their ranks, alongside some less appealing and they need to be strong. The problem is their internal systems which hand far too much influence to the membership and not sufficient to the MPs. So whether they can actually do it is a very open question.

But,....but....their MP's are representatives, not delegates so they should not be influenced at all by the membership but do the very best they can for all their constituency members, whether they voted for them or not.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Stirlingsays 22 Sep 19 11.08pm
Originally posted by becky But,....but....their MP's are representatives, not delegates so they should not be influenced at all by the membership but do the very best they can for all their constituency members, whether they voted for them or not. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Sep 19 11.08pm

Originally posted by becky

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 19 6.00am
The whole argument is just pure disingenerous nonsense. If MPs were pure representatives and not delegates then you wouldn't have a whipping office. Yet all parties operate one. Far nearer to reality is that they are both. My take is that with referendum results is that MPs should be operating as delegates for that specific result. So if your constituency voted remain instead of leave and vice versea then on specific votes on that question you should be representing that vote. I'm being politically naive of course but that's my take anyway. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 6.01am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 19 6.00am

The whole argument is just pure disingenerous nonsense.

If MPs were pure representatives and not delegates then you wouldn't have a whipping office. Yet all parties operate one.

Far nearer to reality is that they are both.

My take is that with referendum results is that MPs should be operating as delegates for that specific result. So if your constituency voted remain instead of leave and vice versea then on specific votes on that question you should be representing that vote.

I'm being politically naive of course but that's my take anyway.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 6.01am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Midlands Eagle 23 Sep 19 6.06am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The whole argument is just pure disingenerous nonsense. If MPs were pure representatives and not delegates then you wouldn't have a whipping office. Yet all parties operate one. Of course they are representatives. Edmund Burke said so 250 years ago which makes it valid. I hear that after he made his speech he sent his sword away to be sharpened as all MPs needed to carry a sharp sword
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Midlands Eagle

23 Sep 19 6.06am

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The whole argument is just pure disingenerous nonsense.

If MPs were pure representatives and not delegates then you wouldn't have a whipping office. Yet all parties operate one.

Of course they are representatives. Edmund Burke said so 250 years ago which makes it valid.

I hear that after he made his speech he sent his sword away to be sharpened as all MPs needed to carry a sharp sword

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dannyboy1978 23 Sep 19 9.02am
Dianne abbot has made me laugh this weekend. She started of with a statement about the Tories insulting people's intelligence! Then had to agree to a labour policy of closing private schools down whilst her own child goes to a private school. You couldn't make it up !
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dannyboy1978

23 Sep 19 9.02am

Dianne abbot has made me laugh this weekend.
She started of with a statement about the Tories insulting people's intelligence!
Then had to agree to a labour policy of closing private schools down whilst her own child goes to a private school.
You couldn't make it up !

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jeeagles 23 Sep 19 9.03am
Very concerning news that they've now announced that it will be their policy to take all the assets of private schools and redistribute them across the state sector. Once they start grabbing stakes of private business in one sector, where will it stop?
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jeeagles

23 Sep 19 9.03am

Very concerning news that they've now announced that it will be their policy to take all the assets of private schools and redistribute them across the state sector.

Once they start grabbing stakes of private business in one sector, where will it stop?

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serial thriller The Promised Land 23 Sep 19 9.21am
When Corbyn was elected, the Mail ran a piece imagining what would happen if he became PM. As you can imagine it wasn't that sympathetic, ending with an economic crash which lead to food shortages, medicine shortages, riots and an increasingly paranoid government fleeing the country. Now, we have a government whose own documentation predicts that their policies will do exactly that. I think it really raises a lie we've all bought in recent times, which is that only Socialism leads to social turmoil and inflation. In fact, unregulated capitalism can do so far more severely. That's the choice we have now. Allow neoliberalism to go on unchecked, or attempt some form of redistribution of the obscene levels of wealth coming in to this country. I have always had reservations as to whether it could be done given how entrenched the elite are in this country. But Now, given the f*cling mess of the past few years, I actually think there's a sliver of a chance. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 23 Sep 19 9.21am

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When Corbyn was elected, the Mail ran a piece imagining what would happen if he became PM. As you can imagine it wasn't that sympathetic, ending with an economic crash which lead to food shortages, medicine shortages, riots and an increasingly paranoid government fleeing the country.

Now, we have a government whose own documentation predicts that their policies will do exactly that. I think it really raises a lie we've all bought in recent times, which is that only Socialism leads to social turmoil and inflation. In fact, unregulated capitalism can do so far more severely.

That's the choice we have now. Allow neoliberalism to go on unchecked, or attempt some form of redistribution of the obscene levels of wealth coming in to this country. I have always had reservations as to whether it could be done given how entrenched the elite are in this country. But Now, given the f*cling mess of the past few years, I actually think there's a sliver of a chance.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 19 9.28am
Originally posted by becky But,....but....their MP's are representatives, not delegates so they should not be influenced at all by the membership but do the very best they can for all their constituency members, whether they voted for them or not. Your sarcasm is predictable but misplaced. The actual point is about how they choose their leader and determine what becomes their public policies. This is about the Party and not about the responsibilities of MPs within Parliament. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 19 9.28am

Originally posted by becky

Your sarcasm is predictable but misplaced. The actual point is about how they choose their leader and determine what becomes their public policies. This is about the Party and not about the responsibilities of MPs within Parliament.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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