Disconnect between scouting department and Roy

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Disconnect between scouting department and Roy

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Username Horsham 02 Nov 18 10.35am
Originally posted by PatrickA I have heard Steve P’s take on transfer activity from the podcast. I think he has been excellent for Palace on the whole and welcome his positivity around the club. However, the fact remains that of the last 7 signings only Kouyate seems a likely starter under the current manager. It is difficult to put a positive spin on this. This points an alarming disconnect between the objectives of the scouting department and the requirements of Roy. It is evident that the two players who Roy wanted to retain - Sakho and Cabaye - left the club. Now it may be they would have left anyway, but it seems evident that Roy does not trust the players brought into the squad as alternatives. I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I think a lot of the recent transfer activity has been about improving depth and not necessarily replacing starters. We're not that far removed from our midfield alternative being Jordon Mutch. Now we have a bench that could have Kouyate, Meyer and Riedewald on there (depending on who starts obviously). Similarly, in goal we now appear to have two good options. Not all of the transfers have worked, particularly up front Sorloth and Ayew haven't provided what we needed so there is still work needed there. However I can see the logic in trying to sign players who can contribute but aren't necessarily going to be starters every week. Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.
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Username

Horsham 02 Nov 18 10.35am

Originally posted by PatrickA

I have heard Steve P’s take on transfer activity from the podcast.
I think he has been excellent for Palace on the whole and welcome his positivity around the club.
However, the fact remains that of the last 7 signings only Kouyate seems a likely starter under the current manager.
It is difficult to put a positive spin on this.
This points an alarming disconnect between the objectives of the scouting department and the requirements of Roy.
It is evident that the two players who Roy wanted to retain - Sakho and Cabaye - left the club.
Now it may be they would have left anyway, but it seems evident that Roy does not trust the players brought into the squad as alternatives.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I think a lot of the recent transfer activity has been about improving depth and not necessarily replacing starters.

We're not that far removed from our midfield alternative being Jordon Mutch. Now we have a bench that could have Kouyate, Meyer and Riedewald on there (depending on who starts obviously). Similarly, in goal we now appear to have two good options.

Not all of the transfers have worked, particularly up front Sorloth and Ayew haven't provided what we needed so there is still work needed there. However I can see the logic in trying to sign players who can contribute but aren't necessarily going to be starters every week.

Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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Username Horsham 02 Nov 18 10.42am
Originally posted by Canterbury Palace I have long felt that managers here get frustrated with the transfer policy. Of our last 7 managers before Roy, 3 of them (Allardyce, Pulis, Freedman) have quit the club rather than being fired with Holloway also leaving by mutual consent. Seems like a very high proportion to me for a top flight club. I don't see how you can throw Freedman and Allardyce in there with Pulis. All three were very different situations. Freedman left us for what he saw as a better opportunity and for more money, but he was backed here. Similarly, Allardyce was given the money to spend in January and backed by Parish. It was only really Pulis that seemed to have issues, but I do think that transfers are often an easy smokescreen for an exiting manager to use to blame the owners/board for their departure. Even if there was friction of transfers, I'm still pretty happy that we re-signed Wilf instead of signing Crouch as I believe Pulis wanted? If anything, a few of the problems we still have are from the backing that was given to Pardew where he was probably given too much freedom in both incoming and outgoing deals. Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.
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Horsham 02 Nov 18 10.42am

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace

I have long felt that managers here get frustrated with the transfer policy. Of our last 7 managers before Roy, 3 of them (Allardyce, Pulis, Freedman) have quit the club rather than being fired with Holloway also leaving by mutual consent. Seems like a very high proportion to me for a top flight club.

I don't see how you can throw Freedman and Allardyce in there with Pulis. All three were very different situations. Freedman left us for what he saw as a better opportunity and for more money, but he was backed here. Similarly, Allardyce was given the money to spend in January and backed by Parish.

It was only really Pulis that seemed to have issues, but I do think that transfers are often an easy smokescreen for an exiting manager to use to blame the owners/board for their departure. Even if there was friction of transfers, I'm still pretty happy that we re-signed Wilf instead of signing Crouch as I believe Pulis wanted?

If anything, a few of the problems we still have are from the backing that was given to Pardew where he was probably given too much freedom in both incoming and outgoing deals.

Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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Painter Croydon 02 Nov 18 10.48am
Originally posted by Canterbury Palace I have long felt that managers here get frustrated with the transfer policy. Of our last 7 managers before Roy, 3 of them (Allardyce, Pulis, Freedman) have quit the club rather than being fired with Holloway also leaving by mutual consent. Seems like a very high proportion to me for a top flight club. This says more about their ability as managers, its the easy route to keep buying and hope get a gem. Managers are employed to coach and improve current players, some obviously cant do that. Saying that, we were the highest spenders outside the top 8 up until last summer. Edited by Painter (02 Nov 2018 10.49am) Edited by Painter (02 Nov 2018 10.49am)
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Painter

Croydon 02 Nov 18 10.48am

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace

This says more about their ability as managers, its the easy route to keep buying and hope get a gem. Managers are employed to coach and improve current players, some obviously cant do that.
Saying that, we were the highest spenders outside the top 8 up until last summer.

Edited by Painter (02 Nov 2018 10.49am)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 02 Nov 18 10.51am
Originally posted by Username I don't see how you can throw Freedman and Allardyce in there with Pulis. All three were very different situations. Freedman left us for what he saw as a better opportunity and for more money, but he was backed here. Similarly, Allardyce was given the money to spend in January and backed by Parish. It was only really Pulis that seemed to have issues, but I do think that transfers are often an easy smokescreen for an exiting manager to use to blame the owners/board for their departure. Even if there was friction of transfers, I'm still pretty happy that we re-signed Wilf instead of signing Crouch as I believe Pulis wanted? If anything, a few of the problems we still have are from the backing that was given to Pardew where he was probably given too much freedom in both incoming and outgoing deals. I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 02 Nov 18 10.51am

Originally posted by Username

If anything, a few of the problems we still have are from the backing that was given to Pardew where he was probably given too much freedom in both incoming and outgoing deals.

I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack.

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Canterbury Palace Whitstable 02 Nov 18 10.57am
Originally posted by Username I don't see how you can throw Freedman and Allardyce in there with Pulis. All three were very different situations. Freedman left us for what he saw as a better opportunity and for more money, but he was backed here. Similarly, Allardyce was given the money to spend in January and backed by Parish. It was only really Pulis that seemed to have issues, but I do think that transfers are often an easy smokescreen for an exiting manager to use to blame the owners/board for their departure. Even if there was friction of transfers, I'm still pretty happy that we re-signed Wilf instead of signing Crouch as I believe Pulis wanted? If anything, a few of the problems we still have are from the backing that was given to Pardew where he was probably given too much freedom in both incoming and outgoing deals. If you reread SP’s quotes from the time, he implied very strongly that Freedman left through ambition and felt Bolton were a better bet to be promoted... [Link] Pulis definitely left as he felt the club didn’t match his ambition, though don’t me wrong I’m certainly not on his side. Allardyce claimed he was retiring and lasted 6 months until a bigger club came along. Possibly a series of coincidences but it just strikes me, as I said, that recently we have had more managers walking out on us than any similar clubs that spring to mind. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...
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Whitstable 02 Nov 18 10.57am

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Originally posted by Username

If anything, a few of the problems we still have are from the backing that was given to Pardew where he was probably given too much freedom in both incoming and outgoing deals.

If you reread SP’s quotes from the time, he implied very strongly that Freedman left through ambition and felt Bolton were a better bet to be promoted...

[Link]

Pulis definitely left as he felt the club didn’t match his ambition, though don’t me wrong I’m certainly not on his side. Allardyce claimed he was retiring and lasted 6 months until a bigger club came along.

Possibly a series of coincidences but it just strikes me, as I said, that recently we have had more managers walking out on us than any similar clubs that spring to mind.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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Username Horsham 02 Nov 18 10.58am
Originally posted by Willo I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack. But without Wilf... Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.
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Username

Horsham 02 Nov 18 10.58am

Originally posted by Willo

I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack.

But without Wilf...

Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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Booted Eagle Bristol 02 Nov 18 12.37pm
Originally posted by Painter This says more about their ability as managers, its the easy route to keep buying and hope get a gem. Managers are employed to coach and improve current players, some obviously cant do that. Saying that, we were the highest spenders outside the top 8 up until last summer. Edited by Painter (02 Nov 2018 10.49am) Edited by Painter (02 Nov 2018 10.49am) Good point. How many signings within our recent stay in the PL have actually developed ? Difficult to name a huge amount beyond the likes of Wilf and he like AWB were nurtured here. “ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ” —United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld
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Bristol 02 Nov 18 12.37pm

Originally posted by Painter

This says more about their ability as managers, its the easy route to keep buying and hope get a gem. Managers are employed to coach and improve current players, some obviously cant do that.
Saying that, we were the highest spenders outside the top 8 up until last summer.

Edited by Painter (02 Nov 2018 10.49am)

Good point. How many signings within our recent stay in the PL have actually developed ? Difficult to name a huge amount beyond the likes of Wilf and he like AWB were nurtured here.

“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ”
—United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld

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cryrst The garden of England 02 Nov 18 8.13pm
Originally posted by Booted Eagle Good point. How many signings within our recent stay in the PL have actually developed ? Difficult to name a huge amount beyond the likes of Wilf and he like AWB were nurtured here. Not many clubs really have got that return on youth since manures Becks and giggs etc
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cryrst

The garden of England 02 Nov 18 8.13pm

Originally posted by Booted Eagle

Good point. How many signings within our recent stay in the PL have actually developed ? Difficult to name a huge amount beyond the likes of Wilf and he like AWB were nurtured here.

Not many clubs really have got that return on youth since manures Becks and giggs etc

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ARGILE OLD GEEZER PORTIMAO 03 Nov 18 8.30am
Originally posted by Willo I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack. Now your getting greedy, Zaha AND Crouch, but come to think of it yeah, why not.
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PORTIMAO 03 Nov 18 8.30am

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Originally posted by Willo

I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack.

Now your getting greedy, Zaha AND Crouch, but come to think of it yeah, why not.

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southnorwoodhill 03 Nov 18 8.47am
Crouch? 6 goals in 34 games for Stoke 2017-2018 season - not exactly prolific.
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southnorwoodhill

03 Nov 18 8.47am

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Crouch? 6 goals in 34 games for Stoke 2017-2018 season - not exactly prolific.

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Stirlingsays 03 Nov 18 9.02am
Originally posted by Willo I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack. Impressions aren't the real thing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Nov 18 9.02am

Originally posted by Willo

I do get the impression that if we had Crouch up front at the present time instead of Sorloth or Ayew we might look more threatening in attack.

Impressions aren't the real thing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Nov 18 9.03am
Originally posted by southnorwoodhill Crouch? 6 goals in 34 games for Stoke 2017-2018 season - not exactly prolific. More prolific than Benteke ! Excellent touch for a big chap, can hold the ball up and he does get his head on the ball.A player who used to model himself on Niall Quinn. I suspect there would be howls of derision if we signed him in January. Edited by Willo (03 Nov 2018 9.04am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Nov 18 9.03am

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

Crouch? 6 goals in 34 games for Stoke 2017-2018 season - not exactly prolific.

More prolific than Benteke !

Excellent touch for a big chap, can hold the ball up and he does get his head on the ball.A player who used to model himself on Niall Quinn.
I suspect there would be howls of derision if we signed him in January.

Edited by Willo (03 Nov 2018 9.04am)

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