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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 14 Jul 18 5.22am | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I don't think it will affect FFP at all as all costs associated with the rebuilding will be capitalised and therefore won't affect profitability
2. Permitted Exclusions I should also point out that the level of loss that a club reports in their financial accounts will not be the same figure as is used in the Break Even calculations. This is because UEFA have allowed clubs to exclude certain expenditure from the calculations. UEFA are keen to develop the game and don't want the FFP rules to constrain clubs from investing and developing - without any exclusions a club building a new stadium or new stand would be hit by an FFP penalty (the cost of the development would mean the club reported a large financial loss). Clubs can therefore exclude infrastructure development costs and youth development/community development costs. Manchester City announced that they should be able to exclude around £10m a year as a result of the youth/community exclusion. There is one other exclusion that causes most confusion amongst journalists and fans; clubs are able to exclude certain wages for their long-standing players. By way of background; when the rules were first proposed, some clubs complained that they were already committed to paying high wage bills for some players on existing contracts and that they could fail the Break Even test as a result. UEFA therefore introduced an appendix to the rules which allows clubs who have failed the Break Even test to run the test again, but this time deduct the wages paid to players on pre-June 2010 contracts. However clubs can only deduct the wages paid to their long-standing players during one season (2011/12) and can only use the exclusion if they can show their Break Even deficit is reducing each year. Chelsea, for example, will probably find that they are not able to deduct the wages paid to Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc during 2011/12. This is because club losses are likely to increase in 2012/13 (they won the Champions League in 2011/12 and are likely to see their UEFA receipts and commercial income reduced in 2012/13).
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Midlands Eagle 14 Jul 18 7.21am | |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
2. Permitted Exclusions I should also point out that the level of loss that a club reports in their financial accounts will not be the same figure as is used in the Break Even calculations. This is because UEFA have allowed clubs to exclude certain expenditure from the calculations. UEFA are keen to develop the game and don't want the FFP rules to constrain clubs from investing and developing - without any exclusions a club building a new stadium or new stand would be hit by an FFP penalty (the cost of the development would mean the club reported a large financial loss). Clubs can therefore exclude infrastructure development costs I don't know where they have got their information from as invariably the costs associated with building a new stadium are not written off against profits anyway. The £80m that our new stand will cost will be included in the accounts as an asset with nothing going against profits at all
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cpfc1976 Reading 14 Jul 18 8.37am | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I don't know where they have got their information from as invariably the costs associated with building a new stadium are not written off against profits anyway. The £80m that our new stand will cost will be included in the accounts as an asset with nothing going against profits at all Not true. It will be depreciated which will affect profit. Maybe only 2% per annum but still an affect on profit.
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Midlands Eagle 14 Jul 18 8.58am | |
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Originally posted by cpfc1976
Not true. It will be depreciated which will affect profit. Maybe only 2% per annum but still an affect on profit. Agreed. I was trying to point out for the non financially minded that an £80m spend on capital items doesn't equate to an £80m loss Palace actually depreciate Selhurst Park over 50 years so an £80m spend will result in a depreciation charge of £1.6m pa if they stick to the same principles
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kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 14 Jul 18 11.49am | |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
2. Permitted Exclusions I should also point out that the level of loss that a club reports in their financial accounts will not be the same figure as is used in the Break Even calculations. This is because UEFA have allowed clubs to exclude certain expenditure from the calculations. UEFA are keen to develop the game and don't want the FFP rules to constrain clubs from investing and developing - without any exclusions a club building a new stadium or new stand would be hit by an FFP penalty (the cost of the development would mean the club reported a large financial loss). Clubs can therefore exclude infrastructure development costs and youth development/community development costs. Manchester City announced that they should be able to exclude around £10m a year as a result of the youth/community exclusion. There is one other exclusion that causes most confusion amongst journalists and fans; clubs are able to exclude certain wages for their long-standing players. By way of background; when the rules were first proposed, some clubs complained that they were already committed to paying high wage bills for some players on existing contracts and that they could fail the Break Even test as a result. UEFA therefore introduced an appendix to the rules which allows clubs who have failed the Break Even test to run the test again, but this time deduct the wages paid to players on pre-June 2010 contracts. However clubs can only deduct the wages paid to their long-standing players during one season (2011/12) and can only use the exclusion if they can show their Break Even deficit is reducing each year. Chelsea, for example, will probably find that they are not able to deduct the wages paid to Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc during 2011/12. This is because club losses are likely to increase in 2012/13 (they won the Champions League in 2011/12 and are likely to see their UEFA receipts and commercial income reduced in 2012/13). Isn't what Palace doing more along the lines of Liverpool building a "new" stand at Anfield rather than Manchester City or West Ham moving into new stadia that were already built for other purposes. Man City moved into the City of Manchester Stadium, which was built for the Commonwealth Games. They also took over training grounds built for the same purpose. West Ham moved into the London (Olympic) Stadium. I'm sure FFP recognizes the difference and makes allowances for them.
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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 16 Jul 18 8.32am | |
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Originally posted by kenbarr
Isn't what Palace doing more along the lines of Liverpool building a "new" stand at Anfield rather than Manchester City or West Ham moving into new stadia that were already built for other purposes. Man City moved into the City of Manchester Stadium, which was built for the Commonwealth Games. They also took over training grounds built for the same purpose. West Ham moved into the London (Olympic) Stadium. I'm sure FFP recognizes the difference and makes allowances for them.
1. West Ham paid out nothing for that stadium it's something like 5m rent a year that is all. 2. I should of been more clear but the Man City side I was referring to was when they paid out for all that fancy mini town you could call it with youth/training stuff. The information I posted is in simple terms from FFP rule book.
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kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 16 Jul 18 1.52pm | |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
1. West Ham paid out nothing for that stadium it's something like 5m rent a year that is all. 2. I should of been more clear but the Man City side I was referring to was when they paid out for all that fancy mini town you could call it with youth/training stuff. The information I posted is in simple terms from FFP rule book. Thank you.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 16 Jul 18 2.08pm | |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
1. West Ham paid out nothing for that stadium it's something like 5m rent a year that is all. 2. I should of been more clear but the Man City side I was referring to was when they paid out for all that fancy mini town you could call it with youth/training stuff. The information I posted is in simple terms from FFP rule book. I'm sure I read an article a couple of months back that another fiddle albeit legal is with their 'Franchises' NYCFC & Melbourne City.
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Palace in the Blood 16 Jul 18 2.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Agreed. I was trying to point out for the non financially minded that an £80m spend on capital items doesn't equate to an £80m loss Palace actually depreciate Selhurst Park over 50 years so an £80m spend will result in a depreciation charge of £1.6m pa if they stick to the same principles There is any number of ways they may do this and it may be related to late accounts. I suspect a separate company (with same share holders) will own ground and rent back to club then none of the "debt" will fall on club. The problem would be that if the company that owned club was sold for any reason this company would have to be part of sale or we could be back in the 2010 situation.
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Midlands Eagle 16 Jul 18 3.12pm | |
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Originally posted by Palace in the Blood
I suspect a separate company (with same share holders) will own ground and rent back to club then none of the "debt" will fall on club. It already happens that way as the ground is owned by CPFC Selhurst Park Ltd
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Palace in the Blood 16 Jul 18 3.58pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
It already happens that way as the ground is owned by CPFC Selhurst Park Ltd Yes so that is where debt will be so FPP and ground development have no bearing. Also running costs of ground such as repairs, maintenance and associated staff costs etc may be carried by this company. This company could provide a total facilities service providing match services such as tickets, security etc. The companies only income being the rent paid by football club. This maximises income for football club as all gate receipts go to them and the expenses are only direct playing costs plus rent which may be nominal.
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kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 16 Jul 18 4.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
I'm sure I read an article a couple of months back that another fiddle albeit legal is with their 'Franchises' NYCFC & Melbourne City. I get a lot of grief that I remain a RBNY supporter. Simply put MLS should have granted the east of the Hudson franchise to the Cosmos and rejected NYCFC. It is nothing but a Man City nursery club. Three items of evidence: 1. The phony Frank Lampard contract. They claimed he was a NYCFC player but he was contracted to Man City for FFP purposes. 2. Jack Harrison. “Transferred” from NYCFC to MCFC and loaned out. 3. Mix Diskerud. “Transferred” from NYCFC to MCFC and loaned out. I rest my case.
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