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 Stirlingsays  10 Jan 18 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I don't think that people realise quite what is involved with some jobs. People join the police to catch criminals without realising that they will also have to attend road traffic accidents and I doubt whether many fire officers would envisage having to see countless charred bodies of children in places like Grenfell Tower No...some people want to change the original topic and then pretend their points relate to it. Reread the original post. I say that some troops coming off a real battlefield are going to need support. Different men deal with things differently. But not recruits doing six weeks bloody training....if you need that you're looking at the wrong place.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 10 Jan 18 1.41pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Well it intrinsically is. Being a soldier must be one of the most mentally scarring professions out there. PTSD is extremely common. Moves like this can only be applauded.
Nope, you can't win wars with pansies. War is going to scar anyone. You need more mentally resilient people than less resilient people. Presenting being a soldier as something that comes with a shoulder to cry on isn't the right message to send. In real war 'mental support' involving hundreds of thousands of men on conscription.....mental health services is not possible.....the scale is impractical....the mental health services comes in the form of your family or partner and it's imperfect but it's how it's always been. Beta males should keep away from the forces and.....as I say, make sand castles down the beach with their mates....maybe they can get consoled once one of them gets knocked over. Joining the forces means you are engaged in learning how to kill the enemy once a conflict starts....even if your job is within a support role. I do not support media campaigns that present the preparation for war like it's a computer game and that you are going to get shoulders to cry on when things get tough. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jan 2018 1.48pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| DanH SW2 10 Jan 18 1.45pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Nope, you can't win wars with pansies. War is going to scar anyone. You need more mentally resilient people than less resilient people. Presenting being a soldier as something that comes with a shoulder to cry on isn't the right message to send. In real war 'mental support' involving hundreds of thousands of men on conscription.....mental health services is not possible.....the scale is impractical....the mental health services comes in the form of your family or partner and it's imperfect but it's how it's always been. Beta males should keep away from the forces and.....as I say, make sand castles down the beach with their mates....maybe they can get consoled once of them gets knocked over. Joining the forces means you are engaged in learning how to kill the enemy once a conflict starts....even if your job is within a support role. I do not support media campaigns that present the preparation for war like it's a computer game and that you are going to get shoulders to cry on when things get tough. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jan 2018 1.43pm) So when are you signing up then?
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| Stirlingsays 10 Jan 18 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
So when are you signing up then? What are you suggesting exactly? Failed the medical at sixteen, as I am effectively one eyed. Finally getting that news was one of the worst things to happen to me as the army was what the males in my family did. Didn't need a shoulder to cry on.....Maybe there should have been a 'mental services clinic' next to the Army careers office eh? Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jan 2018 1.51pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Jan 18 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I come from a family where all the males around me had been in the forces. You didn't read my post properly. It's attacking this 'me' generation not what the Army was....how on earth did you manage to misconstrue that? My response was exactly in line with your post. Having now read the BBC site, I see that in fact the intention was to be inclusive and even attract - gasp - gay people and women. Your OP did not make that clear. Now I can see how someone steeped in history would not understand why we would want people who aren't dripping in testosterone. After all, it takes a real man to control the joystick of a drone.
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| Stirlingsays 10 Jan 18 2.15pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
My response was exactly in line with your post. Having now read the BBC site, I see that in fact the intention was to be inclusive and even attract - gasp - gay people and women. Your OP did not make that clear. Now I can see how someone steeped in history would not understand why we would want people who aren't dripping in testosterone. After all, it takes a real man to control the joystick of a drone. Inclusivity of gays and women has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Gays in the military have been there since it began...it's a false argument. The type of gay bloke normally attracted to the forces isn't playing with dolls and crying when someone's bitchy. Women, with exceptions to those who can pass the phys8ical tests, on the battlefield is not producing the best fighting force you can. Women doing technical or support jobs is no issue. I think your last paragraph highlights a problem that many non militarily minded people have. They think that you don't need a large standing army but that you can do the same things using technology and smaller forces. Something the real players like the US, Russia, China laugh at.....you need both. Too many nations in the EU have been relying on...mainly the US, but also the UK and France for decades.
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| elgrande bedford 10 Jan 18 2.22pm |
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I will give you my take on this. His and a lot of his company mates say " you get a better type of recruit when there is a war on".
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Jan 18 2.29pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Inclusivity of gays and women has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Gays in the military have been there since it began...it's a false argument. The type of gay bloke normally attracted to the forces isn't playing with dolls and crying when someone's bitchy. Women, with exceptions to those who can pass the phys8ical tests, on the battlefield is not producing the best fighting force you can. Women doing technical or support jobs is no issue. I think your last paragraph highlights a problem that many non militarily minded people have. They think that you don't need a large standing army but that you can do the same things using technology and smaller forces. Something the real players like the US, Russia, China laugh at.....you need both. Too many nations in the EU have been relying on...mainly the US, but also the UK and France for decades.
Of course you need both, which appears to be the point being made by the Army. If you read its side of the story. It makes it clear that the intention is to attract a broader range of recruit as both its needs and the demographics are changing. Why not trust the Army to get it right, I expect they gave it some thought. But if there's a chance to bang the same old drum about how useless the younger generation is hey, don't hang back. Weird that the younger generation is going soft apparently and yet there is so much violent crime around. Edited by Mapletree (10 Jan 2018 2.29pm)
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| Stirlingsays 10 Jan 18 2.41pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Of course you need both, which appears to be the point being made by the Army. If you read its side of the story. It makes it clear that the intention is to attract a broader range of recruit as both its needs and the demographics are changing. Why not trust the Army to get it right, I expect they gave it some thought. But if there's a chance to bang the same old drum about how useless the younger generation is hey, don't hang back. Weird that the younger generation is going soft apparently and yet there is so much violent crime around. Edited by Mapletree (10 Jan 2018 2.29pm) I don't trust the Army to get it right because the Army doesn't make the rules.....politicians ultimately do.....just as ultimately they appoint the top brass. The forces have to react to what the politicians give them. We don't need to be 'more inclusive'....it's another nonsense argument. Again, it's the kind of crap politicians feed to the lefty media or lefty activists come out with. How 'more inclusive' are the Chinese or Russia armies? You don't actually need that to win wars. There have been gays and women and differ5ent faiths and all the rest of it in the Army since god knows when....only the rules on homosexuality have changed. I've made my criticisms on what is happening clear. Anyway my original point was that we need to stop treating this adult generation like children who need to be protected......enough damage has been done as it is.
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Jan 18 2.55pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't trust the Army to get it right because the Army doesn't make the rules.....politicians ultimately do.....just as ultimately they appoint the top brass. The forces have to react to what the politicians give them. We don't need to be 'more inclusive'....it's another nonsense argument. Again, it's the kind of crap politicians feed to the lefty media or lefty activists come out with. How 'more inclusive' are the Chinese or Russia armies? You don't actually need that to win wars. There have been gays and women and differ5ent faiths and all the rest of it in the Army since god knows when....only the rules on homosexuality have changed. I've made my criticisms on what is happening clear. Anyway my original point was that we need to stop treating this adult generation like children who need to be protected......enough damage has been done as it is.
Ah right, it's the fault of the older generation because of the way we treat the younger generation. Now all is clear. Got to feel sorry for the youngsters then.
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| Stirlingsays 10 Jan 18 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Ah right, it's the fault of the older generation because of the way we treat the younger generation. Now all is clear. Got to feel sorry for the youngsters then. Essentially as a generalism that isn't wrong. It's about percentages. There are many excellent families and people out there. There are also many people within family cultures that don't have a lot of resilience within them. They are in part shaped by the culture around them.....and the messages they receive from media and governments and schools has been getting worse since the seventies. We don't prepare many people properly for the realities of life and many people, with a bit of money, get to isolate themselves from it.. Eventually the number of mentally unsuitable people becomes a problem......and then we hear about the need to be.....'more inclusive'. There needs to be a re-balancing culturally.....That's the generalism that I'm saying. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jan 2018 3.07pm)
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Jan 18 12.35am |
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Just a suggestion mind, but hows about we don't threaten to prosecute our brave men and women to appease bleeding hearts, and make it a criminal offence for all these toerags who go abroad and fight our/their own troops.
Pro USA & Israel |
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