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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 10.45am

Originally posted by Park Road

To quote the late great Christopher Hitchins:
"Religion, he said, “forces nice people to do unkind things, and also makes intelligent people say stupid things”. Mr Hitchens cited the physicist Stephen Weinberg, that “in the ordinary moral universe, the good will do the best they can, the worst will do the worst they can, but if you want to make good people do wicked things, you’ll need religion or the daily mail”.

EFA.

 

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 06 Dec 17 1.40pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

I have to say that when I hear of this subject I just switch off...its like dealing with 2 toddlers at each others throats; both likely peddling lies and (at the very least) twisted versions of the truth about one another...if only you could metaphorically bang both their heads together and tell them to respect one another and get on with it!

I do however appreciate that this may be oversimplifying the situation!

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Park Road Flag 06 Dec 17 2.07pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

I have to say that when I hear of this subject I just switch off...its like dealing with 2 toddlers at each others throats; both likely peddling lies and (at the very least) twisted versions of the truth about one another...if only you could metaphorically bang both their heads together and tell them to respect one another and get on with it!

I do however appreciate that this may be oversimplifying the situation!

I hear you

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 2.33pm

[Link]

Any excuse for this

 

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 06 Dec 17 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Park Road

To quote the late great Christopher Hitchins:
"Religion, he said, “forces nice people to do unkind things, and also makes intelligent people say stupid things”. Mr Hitchens cited the physicist Stephen Weinberg, that “in the ordinary moral universe, the good will do the best they can, the worst will do the worst they can, but if you want to make good people do wicked things, you’ll need religion”.


To be fair to religion (not my usual stance) it's not so much religion that can make people do bad things, but authority. The Milgram test proved this. [Link]

Quote

Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.


Of course, religion is used to create authority over people, so it's a bit hand in glove, but there are plenty of examples down the years of areligious groups getting people to do bad things to other people because they were told it's ok. Nazis and Communists spring to mind.

Edited by Ray in Houston (06 Dec 2017 3.18pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Park Road Flag 06 Dec 17 3.26pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Of course, religion is used to create authority over people, so it's a bit hand in glove, but there are plenty of examples down the years of areligious groups getting people to do bad things to other people because they were told it's ok. Nazis and Communists spring to mind.

Edited by Ray in Houston (06 Dec 2017 3.18pm)

Yes, I understand that, but none of those so called groups did what they did on the words of a capricious deity that has yet to be proved exists
All, your pointing out is that as a human race we're pretty f#cked up.
There are some nasty folk out there.

You forgot "pol pot" btw

 

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 06 Dec 17 3.30pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

A lot of people think it's the right thing to do as it's the genuine capital. Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times in the prophets and writings and not once in the Koran.

Both the Senate and House overwhelmingly passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act in 1995 to move the embassy from Tel Aviv and recognise Jerusalem as the capital, so Trump is just implementing this.

It also sends a message that Israel and US won't be threatened by violence from Hamas.


It also means that the US is now no longer in a position to broker a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Trump has moved the US firmly into Israel's camp, and so the Palestinians will no longer recognize us as a neutral arbiter.

This means that he just threw a giant spanner into the works of the peace process, which isn't going to sit well with Palestinians who believe they've waited long enough.

Of course, any increase in violence by the Palestinians (almost inevitable as a result of Trump's decision) will be met with a strong reaction from Israel. It's almost as if this is exactly what Netanyahu wants...

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stuk Flag Top half 06 Dec 17 3.52pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


It also means that the US is now no longer in a position to broker a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Trump has moved the US firmly into Israel's camp, and so the Palestinians will no longer recognize us as a neutral arbiter.

This means that he just threw a giant spanner into the works of the peace process, which isn't going to sit well with Palestinians who believe they've waited long enough.

Of course, any increase in violence by the Palestinians (almost inevitable as a result of Trump's decision) will be met with a strong reaction from Israel. It's almost as if this is exactly what Netanyahu wants...

I don't think anyone ever would have, particularly the Palestinians!

They do like to claim a lot of stuff do Islam. I wonder how enamoured they would be if another religion decided they would like to share Mecca for example?

 


Optimistic as ever

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PaddyMcPaddy Flag 06 Dec 17 3.55pm Send a Private Message to PaddyMcPaddy Add PaddyMcPaddy as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


It also means that the US is now no longer in a position to broker a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Trump has moved the US firmly into Israel's camp, and so the Palestinians will no longer recognize us as a neutral arbiter.

This means that he just threw a giant spanner into the works of the peace process, which isn't going to sit well with Palestinians who believe they've waited long enough.

Of course, any increase in violence by the Palestinians (almost inevitable as a result of Trump's decision) will be met with a strong reaction from Israel. It's almost as if this is exactly what Netanyahu wants...

Peace was never happening. As unfortunate as that is, they can discuss it till the cows come home it won't change.

 

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Cannonball Flag High in the Ozarks. 06 Dec 17 5.50pm Send a Private Message to Cannonball Add Cannonball as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

The locals managed Jerusalem quite nicely for 800 years until Israel's continuing illegal forceful occupation of it since 1967.

Trump is basically giving the thumbs-up to a criminal act and a massive killer slap in the face to the two-state proposal.

Well said Kermit !

 


Touch my coffee and I will slap you so hard even Google won't be able to find you.

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thegreatlardino Flag crawley/selsey 06 Dec 17 5.58pm Send a Private Message to thegreatlardino Add thegreatlardino as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Been mooted that this is merely a ruse from Trump to deflect from his issues at home...

really you dont say! you would never have our politicans doing that

 


Sometimes I set out for Ludlow
Sometimes I end up in Chepstow

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 06 Dec 17 9.09pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

I don't think anyone ever would have, particularly the Palestinians!

They do like to claim a lot of stuff do Islam. I wonder how enamoured they would be if another religion decided they would like to share Mecca for example?


There was at least a fig leaf of neutrality, with the option of using the US's financial support of Israel as a lever. Now, any shred of impartiality is gone and will never be recovered.

Jerusalem is a nightmare, being ground zero for three religions, all believing in the same God but with differing opinions on who Jesus was.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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