As a resident leftie...

It’s worth taking on a couple of arguments going on here. First, the idea that liberalism is a preserve of the elites; but look at the type of person spearheading the counter-argument. Murray is an old Etonian, while the major Vote Leave politicians - people like Douglas Carswell, Farage, Hannan - were all blessed with a private education. Contrary to popular opinion, the racism which lead to European Fascism in the early 20th century was spearheaded by intellectual intelligentsia who endorsed phrenology, eugenics and in Germany a distorted view of an ancient Indian belief in Aryanism.

Today, the intellectual basis for Islamophobia is spearheaded by the alt-right, which is funded by millionaire’s like the Regnery’s and supported by billionaires like Robert Mercer. It’s been legitimised by another billionaire, Trump, making his way to the White House on the back of often falsified, incendiary racist remarks.

But regardless of the top down way in which racism Myers our society, it feels like we still need to win arguments like the one made in the opening post. Is there an issue with some Islamic attitudes towards women? Yes. But before we become too culturally proud, let’s not forget that we only stopped burning witches around 7 generations ago, and we legalised homosexuality around 100 years after the Islamic Ottoman Empire did. Why does this matter? As it shows that societies and cultures, just like ours, can drastically change their perceptions and values.

If we believe in our culture, we should be strong enough to believe that integration within it will allow these communities to see the light. Many Jamaicans who came over in the 50s and 60s had similar misogyny issues, yet today we have several success stories of Caribbean women in our society.

If we believe these communities instead to be intransigent and beyond redemption, we are allowing millions of the poorest and most needy asylum seekers in the world to die or suffer, most of whom are in fact proud people whose values will probably be very close to have ours. The thing that makes me laugh is when these arguments are framed in a Christian vs Islam context. What do people who believe in this think the parable of the Good Samaritan tells us? What do they think Jesus would do in today’s world? What would they make of the fact that Jesus, as a Palestinian, would hav today been born in to almost certain refugee status, in need of the help and benevolence of us in more fortunate countries?

Edited by serial thriller (04 Dec 2017 11.15pm)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Read it. To the end. All 16 f***ing pages.

No it doesn't.

It shows that the right keep dragging up the rape gang stuff which means that my mate Mo who runs the papershop has to endure a love hate relationship with his increasingly racist clientele.
However heinous the crime, to use it to stoke and perpetuate islamaphobia is plainly wrong.

I still contend from personal experience anyone who accuses an opponent of calling them racist tends to be one. Whether they consciously realise they are or not is an interesting debate.

haha unbelievable "dragging up the rape gang stuff" yeah lets just sweep it under the carpet for fear of upsetting people and not tackling the under lying issues? you have just confirmed Douglas Murray's point!
just take a second and listen to yourself will you instead of jumping all over something without thinking it through.
and as for the second part of your reply you are calling me a rascist which confirms my origanal point. wow just wow!

cant you see that the far left are creating this big divide? you won't believe me but i was politically in the centre a swinging (dont go there)voter but the fact we are not allowed to ask these questions and debate such an ideology with out fear of retribution is making the problems worse?

here's a clip of people being acussed of being rascist who happen to be black,mixed race and ex muslims for just airing their concerns about extremism and islam.

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Why aren't you bringing up the convicted paedophiles that were in the BNP over and over again.

The rape gang were cunds, as is any rapist. You go on about stopping terrorism yet bring up the rape gang stuff that has nothing to do with ordinary law abiding British Muslims, yet they are bearing the brunt of the racists who can't see a difference between rapist and non rapist , just a muslamic.

And it's repeated and repeated and drip fed and soon imbeciles believe that's what they're all like.

I don't understand why you are using non white people being racist as some sort of justification.

Any c*** can be racist, whatever colour or creed.

Edited by nickgusset (05 Dec 2017 1.06am)

You mean how Labour activists do against Tories? Yeah terrible.

Not so with this book so far.....mind you I'm at page 15.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2017 2.28am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)