Women's refuges.

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Women's refuges.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 17 11.38am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Left leaning, socialist. That's just juggling definitions. Fact is, the piece is biased and unbalanced which is what was intended. Do I believe that the government wants to see women die at the hands of their spouses? Unlikely. Do I believe that left wingers want it to look that way ? Without doubt. No, they're very different things. The Guardian isn't exactly promoting the overthrow of capitalism and a replacement by a government of the proletariat - its not even anti-capitalist. Whether the government wants something is not the issue, its whether those cuts and government spending changes are directly causing problems for citizens of the UK - that those elected representatives are supposed to represent. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 28 Nov 17 11.38am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Left leaning, socialist. That's just juggling definitions.
Fact is, the piece is biased and unbalanced which is what was intended.
Do I believe that the government wants to see women die at the hands of their spouses? Unlikely.
Do I believe that left wingers want it to look that way ? Without doubt.

No, they're very different things. The Guardian isn't exactly promoting the overthrow of capitalism and a replacement by a government of the proletariat - its not even anti-capitalist.

Whether the government wants something is not the issue, its whether those cuts and government spending changes are directly causing problems for citizens of the UK - that those elected representatives are supposed to represent.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 12.46pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 No, they're very different things. The Guardian isn't exactly promoting the overthrow of capitalism and a replacement by a government of the proletariat - its not even anti-capitalist. Whether the government wants something is not the issue, its whether those cuts and government spending changes are directly causing problems for citizens of the UK - that those elected representatives are supposed to represent. Oh come on. The Labour party was founded on socialist principles. Attlee nationalised almost everything in the forties. If that isn't a direct nod to socialism then I don't know what is. Socialism has come to mean much more since then and has branched off to allow for market friendly socialism, an oxymoron if ever there was one. The government will spend taxpayers money as they deem prudent and that has never accounted for individual cases. There are always 'victims' of any policy by any government.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 12.46pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

No, they're very different things. The Guardian isn't exactly promoting the overthrow of capitalism and a replacement by a government of the proletariat - its not even anti-capitalist.

Oh come on. The Labour party was founded on socialist principles. Attlee nationalised almost everything in the forties. If that isn't a direct nod to socialism then I don't know what is.
Socialism has come to mean much more since then and has branched off to allow for market friendly socialism, an oxymoron if ever there was one.

The government will spend taxpayers money as they deem prudent and that has never accounted for individual cases. There are always 'victims' of any policy by any government.

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becky over the moon 28 Nov 17 12.48pm
Maybe, instead of debating about the left/right positions on funding rents for refuges for battered women, it might be more productive to look at why so many men feel the need to mistreat the women in their lives. How have society/parents/teachers let this happen? A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 28 Nov 17 12.48pm

Maybe, instead of debating about the left/right positions on funding rents for refuges for battered women, it might be more productive to look at why so many men feel the need to mistreat the women in their lives. How have society/parents/teachers let this happen?

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 17 12.49pm
Ok, so back to shelters, responsibility for the protection of vulnerable people and domestic violence. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 28 Nov 17 12.49pm

Ok, so back to shelters, responsibility for the protection of vulnerable people and domestic violence.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Nov 17 12.54pm
Originally posted by becky Maybe, instead of debating about the left/right positions on funding rents for refuges for battered women, it might be more productive to look at why so many men feel the need to mistreat the women in their lives. How have society/parents/teachers let this happen? Prevention is a good route to go down. Still doesn't help these poor women though.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 28 Nov 17 12.54pm

Originally posted by becky

Prevention is a good route to go down. Still doesn't help these poor women though.

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 1.04pm
Instead of going down the virtue signalling route perhaps we should understand why couples have conflict and how to deal with the social mechanisms that set them in play. Clearly, there are cases where people need to be protected immediately but that is treating the symptoms. Maybe we need to do more to cure the disease.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 1.04pm

Instead of going down the virtue signalling route perhaps we should understand why couples have conflict and how to deal with the social mechanisms that set them in play.

Clearly, there are cases where people need to be protected immediately but that is treating the symptoms. Maybe we need to do more to cure the disease.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 17 1.56pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Instead of going down the virtue signalling route perhaps we should understand why couples have conflict and how to deal with the social mechanisms that set them in play. Clearly, there are cases where people need to be protected immediately but that is treating the symptoms. Maybe we need to do more to cure the disease. Ok, so what do you think the social mechanisms that set these in play are? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 28 Nov 17 1.56pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Instead of going down the virtue signalling route perhaps we should understand why couples have conflict and how to deal with the social mechanisms that set them in play.

Clearly, there are cases where people need to be protected immediately but that is treating the symptoms. Maybe we need to do more to cure the disease.

Ok, so what do you think the social mechanisms that set these in play are?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 17 2.06pm
Originally posted by becky Maybe, instead of debating about the left/right positions on funding rents for refuges for battered women, it might be more productive to look at why so many men feel the need to mistreat the women in their lives. How have society/parents/teachers let this happen? I think it stems from a lack of self worth, an aggressive background (either experiencing or using violence as a means of resolving feelings of anger) and the lower regard that society traditional has held women in. A man who is a failure in life, is likely angry, and takes that anger out on those around him that he blames for his failure (and in doing so, hurts himself as well, confirming his failure). Like a drunk drowning their sorrows, its a sublimation of that feeling your drowning. For a moment, you're powerful, and taking charge of your life - but its not real, its just easy. Its why they're also so remorseful, because part of it is that it hurts them as well; like someone self harming to feel alive, to feel something. And of course in doing so, they're making that person more like themselves. Of course sometimes, people just hit each other because the other person is frustrating as f**k or really pissed you off. But where you've got regular battery occurring, I think its more "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 28 Nov 17 2.06pm

Originally posted by becky

I think it stems from a lack of self worth, an aggressive background (either experiencing or using violence as a means of resolving feelings of anger) and the lower regard that society traditional has held women in. A man who is a failure in life, is likely angry, and takes that anger out on those around him that he blames for his failure (and in doing so, hurts himself as well, confirming his failure).

Like a drunk drowning their sorrows, its a sublimation of that feeling your drowning. For a moment, you're powerful, and taking charge of your life - but its not real, its just easy.

Its why they're also so remorseful, because part of it is that it hurts them as well; like someone self harming to feel alive, to feel something. And of course in doing so, they're making that person more like themselves.

Of course sometimes, people just hit each other because the other person is frustrating as f**k or really pissed you off. But where you've got regular battery occurring, I think its more

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 2.31pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Ok, so what do you think the social mechanisms that set these in play are? Wow. That is a question. Violence usually begets violence. Someone who was hit often becomes a hitter. Women are sometimes attracted to men who's insecurities might make them devoted and attentive or 'exciting' but also jealous and potentially violent. Some women provoke violence with their actions while some men are controlling in a passive way while others use violence to maintain control. Each case no doubt is individual but can probably be categorised by someone with expertise. That's my amateur psychology over for today. Thanks. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Nov 2017 3.34pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 2.31pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Ok, so what do you think the social mechanisms that set these in play are?

Wow. That is a question.

Violence usually begets violence. Someone who was hit often becomes a hitter.
Women are sometimes attracted to men who's insecurities might make them devoted and attentive or 'exciting' but also jealous and potentially violent. Some women provoke violence with their actions while some men are controlling in a passive way while others use violence to maintain control.
Each case no doubt is individual but can probably be categorised by someone with expertise.

That's my amateur psychology over for today. Thanks.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Nov 2017 3.34pm)

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Ray in Houston Houston 28 Nov 17 2.51pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The Guardian is Socialist? Its left leaning, but I'd hardly call it socialist, anymore than the Daily Mail is fascist. All news papers should be printing articles that are critical of the government (Notably the Guardian did this with Tony Blair as well). To be fair, while The Guardian is my UK paper of choice (the football coverage is solid and very fair to the Palace), it criticizing Blair is hardly it staying neutral. As Alan B'Stard once explained, he switched from the Tories to New Labor because "they're much younger, much sexier and much more conservative!" We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 28 Nov 17 2.51pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The Guardian is Socialist? Its left leaning, but I'd hardly call it socialist, anymore than the Daily Mail is fascist. All news papers should be printing articles that are critical of the government (Notably the Guardian did this with Tony Blair as well).

To be fair, while The Guardian is my UK paper of choice (the football coverage is solid and very fair to the Palace), it criticizing Blair is hardly it staying neutral. As Alan B'Stard once explained, he switched from the Tories to New Labor because "they're much younger, much sexier and much more conservative!"

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 28 Nov 17 3.01pm
Originally posted by becky Maybe, instead of debating about the left/right positions on funding rents for refuges for battered women, it might be more productive to look at why so many men feel the need to mistreat the women in their lives. How have society/parents/teachers let this happen? Bingo! As Michelle Wolf very astutely pointed out on The Daily Show, we don't need men to start protecting women from abusers, we need men to stop protecting men. I think this is the correct link: [Link] I see now that Weinstein and - more importantly - some other people in his orbit - have been charged with sex trafficking in France. He raped a would-be actress who was offered up to him as a sacrifice by a toady. This is a significant part of the horror behind the Weinsteins of this world - that those around them know exactly what's going on and at best do nothing. At worst, they enable and at the most heinous level, groom and deliver victims. Women are not believed when they make accusations of abuse, either sexual or physical. That is because society has decided that men are more credible than women. As these are almost always a he said / she said situation, the woman has lost before she's even tried. This has been writ large in the press lately with the likes of Cosby, Trump and Weinstein needing dozens of accusers each before any traction is gained, yet one man comes out against Kevin Spacey and the hammer falls in an instant. You just have to look at the heartbreaking number of #MeToos out there to know that this is a far bigger problem than we men can even now fathom. Women, of course, know the extent because they live it every single day. Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Nov 2017 3.05pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 28 Nov 17 3.01pm

Originally posted by becky

Bingo! As Michelle Wolf very astutely pointed out on The Daily Show, we don't need men to start protecting women from abusers, we need men to stop protecting men.

I think this is the correct link: [Link]

I see now that Weinstein and - more importantly - some other people in his orbit - have been charged with sex trafficking in France. He raped a would-be actress who was offered up to him as a sacrifice by a toady. This is a significant part of the horror behind the Weinsteins of this world - that those around them know exactly what's going on and at best do nothing. At worst, they enable and at the most heinous level, groom and deliver victims.

Women are not believed when they make accusations of abuse, either sexual or physical. That is because society has decided that men are more credible than women. As these are almost always a he said / she said situation, the woman has lost before she's even tried.

This has been writ large in the press lately with the likes of Cosby, Trump and Weinstein needing dozens of accusers each before any traction is gained, yet one man comes out against Kevin Spacey and the hammer falls in an instant.

You just have to look at the heartbreaking number of #MeToos out there to know that this is a far bigger problem than we men can even now fathom. Women, of course, know the extent because they live it every single day.

Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Nov 2017 3.05pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 28 Nov 17 3.04pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Wow. That is a question. Violence usually begets violence. Someone who hit often becomes a hitter. Women are sometimes attracted to men who are insecurities might make them devoted and attentive or 'exciting' but also jealous and potentially violent. Some women provoke violence with their actions while some men are controlling in a passive way while others use violence to maintain control. Each case no doubt is individual but can probably be categorised by someone with expertise. That's my amateur psychology over for today. Thanks. You go with victim-blaming for #1 and #2? How about this: men, don't hit anyone. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 28 Nov 17 3.04pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Wow. That is a question.

Violence usually begets violence. Someone who hit often becomes a hitter.
Women are sometimes attracted to men who are insecurities might make them devoted and attentive or 'exciting' but also jealous and potentially violent. Some women provoke violence with their actions while some men are controlling in a passive way while others use violence to maintain control.
Each case no doubt is individual but can probably be categorised by someone with expertise.

That's my amateur psychology over for today. Thanks.

You go with victim-blaming for #1 and #2?

How about this: men, don't hit anyone.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Alert a moderator to this post

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