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Centenary of Russian Revolution
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 Stirlingsays  09 Nov 17 11.34am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Mao Tse-Tung beats the USSR and Nazi Germany put together. Note that China today still honours that mass murderer. We can only hope that China's love of commercialism and living standards out weighs its love of control. And that China and Russia don't gang up. Europe/US v China/Russia. Now...back to those bunker plans.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 09 Nov 17 11.38am |
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I've read that Hitler's regime is responsible for around 42 million dead. The extermination camps have come to represent some awful stuff. Read the letter of one of those camp guards who complained that the screams of the children in the gas chambers was keeping him up at night.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Park Road  09 Nov 17 11.41am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Genghis the environmentalist. Vote Genghis, get green......Well, go green and moldy out in the sun till they bury you.
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 09 Nov 17 6.13pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
The fiasco of the Russian military in the first world war probably did more to engender the end of Tsarist Russia and pave the way to the revolution than anything else. The crimes of the civil war (between the reds and the whites were brutal, on both sides - but what followed the success of the Bolshevik side, remains among the worst crimes against humanity. The moment that the Bolsheviks moved against a democratically elected government, by force of arms, was the point at which it lost all validity as a force of the people, being those who would use force on the people. The crimes committed by Lenin, Trotsky and ultimately Stalin are of course unforgivable. Any state that kills its own people as a means of control is despotic and deserves to be remembered as such. Spot on. Nowt wrong with the first 1917 revolution - it all went a bit Animal Farm pretty quickly after that. Elites with absolute control of the state and media are anathema to the freedom of those they govern.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 09 Nov 17 7.44pm |
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The USSR had many fine achievements that could not even be dreamed of in Tzarist Russia. Take a while to see them and understand better. Many Russian and Eastern Europpean people are fed up with capitalism and wish they were 'back in the USSR'. By 1937 at the time of the 'evil dictatorship' of Stalin the Russian people became fully literate, before the revolution only 20% of men and 13% of women could read or write. They also had free health care and education, no crime, no famine as happened frequently in tzarist Russia, and a nearly doubled life expectancy. From being slaves for centuries before the revolution that is some achievement. The first 'gulag' was not built by Lenin but by the British Army who invaded Russia at Archangel and built a concentration camp on 'Death Island' nearby. That effort to sabotage the revolution failed and we have never understood the revolution or the reasons for it. You have to understand the situation of the Russian people at that time to see why there was a revolution. Whatever purges tragedies murder and mayhem occurred Without the USSR we would probably not even be here, the Red Army faced 200 divisions of nazi invaders, we faced no more than 50 in the entire WW2. Oh but it's true the average Russian did not have a mobile phone in the soviet era, how appalling. So much more to relate but space is short.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 09 Nov 17 7.57pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The USSR had many fine achievements that could not even be dreamed of in Tzarist Russia. Take a while to see them and understand better. Many Russian and Eastern Europpean people are fed up with capitalism and wish they were 'back in the USSR'. By 1937 at the time of the 'evil dictatorship' of Stalin the Russian people became fully literate, before the revolution only 20% of men and 13% of women could read or write. They also had free health care and education, no crime, no famine as happened frequently in tzarist Russia, and a nearly doubled life expectancy. From being slaves for centuries before the revolution that is some achievement. The first 'gulag' was not built by Lenin but by the British Army who invaded Russia at Archangel and built a concentration camp on 'Death Island' nearby. That effort to sabotage the revolution failed and we have never understood the revolution or the reasons for it. You have to understand the situation of the Russian people at that time to see why there was a revolution. Whatever purges tragedies murder and mayhem occurred Without the USSR we would probably not even be here, the Red Army faced 200 divisions of nazi invaders, we faced no more than 50 in the entire WW2. Oh but it's true the average Russian did not have a mobile phone in the soviet era, how appalling. So much more to relate but space is short. Don't the mountains of corpses bother you at all? Would you like to see a similar regime here?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 09 Nov 17 7.59pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The USSR had many fine achievements that could not even be dreamed of in Tzarist Russia. Take a while to see them and understand better. Many Russian and Eastern Europpean people are fed up with capitalism and wish they were 'back in the USSR'. By 1937 at the time of the 'evil dictatorship' of Stalin the Russian people became fully literate, before the revolution only 20% of men and 13% of women could read or write. They also had free health care and education, no crime, no famine as happened frequently in tzarist Russia, and a nearly doubled life expectancy. From being slaves for centuries before the revolution that is some achievement. The first 'gulag' was not built by Lenin but by the British Army who invaded Russia at Archangel and built a concentration camp on 'Death Island' nearby. That effort to sabotage the revolution failed and we have never understood the revolution or the reasons for it. You have to understand the situation of the Russian people at that time to see why there was a revolution. Whatever purges tragedies murder and mayhem occurred Without the USSR we would probably not even be here, the Red Army faced 200 divisions of nazi invaders, we faced no more than 50 in the entire WW2. Oh but it's true the average Russian did not have a mobile phone in the soviet era, how appalling. So much more to relate but space is short. No famine!!! Are you being serious? Your support of Soviet Russia just beggars belief, as does your support of Mugabe. You always, quite rightly, seriously attack child abuse. What is your take on children being tortured by the Russian communists in front of their parents to elicit confessions?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 10 Nov 17 12.55am |
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the TSar was a monster and a dinosaur. His loss of control and assasination was not really a surprise. What really was a surprise is the arrival of a communist regime to do a complete takeover.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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| Stirlingsays 10 Nov 17 3.51am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The USSR had many fine achievements that could not even be dreamed of in Tzarist Russia. Take a while to see them and understand better. Many Russian and Eastern Europpean people are fed up with capitalism and wish they were 'back in the USSR'. By 1937 at the time of the 'evil dictatorship' of Stalin the Russian people became fully literate, before the revolution only 20% of men and 13% of women could read or write. They also had free health care and education, no crime, no famine as happened frequently in tzarist Russia, and a nearly doubled life expectancy. From being slaves for centuries before the revolution that is some achievement. The first 'gulag' was not built by Lenin but by the British Army who invaded Russia at Archangel and built a concentration camp on 'Death Island' nearby. That effort to sabotage the revolution failed and we have never understood the revolution or the reasons for it. You have to understand the situation of the Russian people at that time to see why there was a revolution. Whatever purges tragedies murder and mayhem occurred Without the USSR we would probably not even be here, the Red Army faced 200 divisions of nazi invaders, we faced no more than 50 in the entire WW2. Oh but it's true the average Russian did not have a mobile phone in the soviet era, how appalling. So much more to relate but space is short. Wow, the stuff you come out with. Talk about defending the indefensible. Under the definition of Gulag. To quote: 'The Gulag was the government agency created under Vladimir Lenin' A concentration camp by other nations is not a gulag. While they are sometimes similar as forced labour camps, different nations operated under different rules and outcomes....all can be criticised but also all of them can be measured by conditions and body count. The systems operated by the Nazis and Soviets don't bear comparisons to others. As for where you get your statistics on crime, education and others.....It is well documented that the soviets weren't honest with public statistics. Regardless, if a democratic government had been allowed to exist all of these perfectly valid achievements would have been achieved. This can be evidenced by the progress of other eastern European countries before the soviets invaded them. As for the USSR saving us.....Without the USSR it's questionable that Hitler would have risen to prominence. His party stood in direct opposition to communists and Jews and the USSR and the Soviets were the perfect adversity to sell world war as a defensive action. Communists were significant in Germany in the twenties and fought the rise of Hitler all the way....The Germans kept records of Nazi and Communist body counts from their weekly fighting. He hated them and he needed them. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Nov 2017 8.26am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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leifandersonshair  Newport 10 Nov 17 6.45am |
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Stalin was a monster, whose policies resulted in millions of deaths. However, he forcibly dragged Russia from a medieval society to a fully industrialised one- and it was the USSR's industrial might that was key in the victory on the Eastern front in WW2. Suggesting it was the fault of the communists that Hitler came to power is completely ridiculous though. It is an interesting speculation of what Russian history might have been had the provisional government following the February revolution withdrawn from the First World War. It was largely the continued fighting, in which Russia was losing badly, that led to the conditions for the Bolshevik October revolution. Would Russia have become a stable parliamentary democracy/republic had the provisional government remained in power? On the flip side, would that Russia have been capable of resisting the Nazis?
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 10 Nov 17 7.05am |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
the TSar was a monster and a dinosaur. His loss of control and assasination was not really a surprise. What really was a surprise is the arrival of a communist regime to do a complete takeover. there are many parallels with the French revolution. Replacing christianity with a new ideology for starters. Whereas the three vile mass murdering communists, Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin, were cuddly 'progressives'? Yes there are parallels with the French Revolution, another blood bath where they end up with an Emperor ffs with far more power and deaths to his name than the previous French kings.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 10 Nov 17 7.07am |
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Originally posted by leifandersonshair
Stalin was a monster, whose policies resulted in millions of deaths. However, he forcibly dragged Russia from a medieval society to a fully industrialised one- and it was the USSR's industrial might that was key in the victory on the Eastern front in WW2. Suggesting it was the fault of the communists that Hitler came to power is completely ridiculous though. It is an interesting speculation of what Russian history might have been had the provisional government following the February revolution withdrawn from the First World War. It was largely the continued fighting, in which Russia was losing badly, that led to the conditions for the Bolshevik October revolution. Would Russia have become a stable parliamentary democracy/republic had the provisional government remained in power? On the flip side, would that Russia have been capable of resisting the Nazis? Russia would have become an industrial society under a non-communist government. The difference would have been they would have done is without the slaughter of millions of their own citizens and total lack of freedom.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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