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Paradise papers

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coulsdoneagle Flag London 06 Nov 17 9.46am Send a Private Message to coulsdoneagle Add coulsdoneagle as a friend

Any chance Everton might have a points deduction with the dodgy ownership?

We might not be bottom if that's the case!

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Nov 17 9.55am

Originally posted by npn

My point (clumsily made) was that most of us try to be "tax efficient". Nobody (as far as I've seen) in these papers has actually broken any laws and THAT is where the problem lies. Tighten the laws around offshore investment so you can't avoid lax legally. If HMRC and other government departments need resources to do that and police it, then give them those resources (pays for itself many times over in no time flat)

Yep. HMRC also need to go after the difficult targets rather than the low hanging fruit (their normal prey). When you have a situation where companies operating in the UK can pay only a nominal amount of taxation, then the situation has to become one where you take action against that company (especially given the reductions in corporation tax these companies have been granted in recent years).

Tax them only based on their revenue generated in the UK, not based on where they are registered or losses made in another overseas division. If Amazon make 400m in the UK, it should pay tax based on that 400m, where its registered or how its Uzbekimedniabumf***istan franchise is doing is irrelevant (and you can be sure when that division makes a profit, none of that will come back to the UK Taxpayer).

Stop companies operating in the UK being registered overseas.

I'm less concerned about individuals.

 


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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 06 Nov 17 9.58am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Enoch Powell discussed tax affairs in one of his books. In reference to tax officials asking questions about citizens financial arrangements that were outside their functions as defined by the law (at the time in 1967, the Inland Revenue asking for an analysis of holdings of stocks and shares that they were not entitled to ask). In response to a Minister saying "there is nothing improper" about this, Powell wrote:
"So far from there being 'nothing improper' about this, there is everything improper about it, and dangerous too. In a free country there is an actual duty upon the citizens not to submit to unauthorised inquisition, but while fully, accurately, conscientiously and (if possible) cheerfully doing what the law requires of him, to repudiate and repel encroachments upon his private affairs; for every such encroachment not resisted makes the next one easier, and soon people fall into a state where they fail any longer to distinguish between lawful authority and lawless authority, though that distinction is one of the most important distinctions in the world."

Fortunately for us Heath sacked him.

Heath's phrase 'The unacceptable face of Capitalism' seems much more appropriate here.

 

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Sportyteacher Flag London 06 Nov 17 11.28am Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Take a look and listen to Lord Ashcroft who, when one is faced with the emerging facts, may well have been bankrolling donations for The Conservative Party slyly through the UK tax payer:

[Link]
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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 06 Nov 17 11.39am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by npn

I partake in tax avoidance - there, I've said it:
* I have ISAs
* I have an offset mortgage
* I made a loss on a business venture, then sold a house in the same year and offset the loss against my CGT liability
* I put my charity donations on my tax return

The only way to tackle these issues is to pump a shedload of cash into HMRC and get the loopholes closed down - if you believe ways of avoiding tax are unethical, then make them illegal and enforce it.

I do find it a bit rich accusing the Queen of unethical tax avoidance though, since technically she is the recipient of the tax (and the tax she pays is largely voluntary - not that I'm implying that should be the case, of course, but it is)


Spot on

 


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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 06 Nov 17 11.41am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Fenandes

That's like admitting to also being a part of the sex scandals because you gave a girl a wine gum before sex. Surely it's not even in the same league.

Also, the Queen and her estate are surely even WORSE for fleecing us of our taxes and then having the cheek to try and avoid paying back. f*** her and the 1%. But watch the poor defend their rights to sponge off us.

Edited by Mr Fenandes (06 Nov 2017 8.44am)

She's exempt from Tax, but chooses to pay income tax anyway...so hardly a sensible point

 


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Mr Palaceman Flag 06 Nov 17 12.08pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Personally, I think that the less government has to do with everyday life the better. In terms of tax law in this country, serious reform is needed.

I would argue for a universal tax rate for everyone and EVERYONE pays it. The same for corporations, you trade here you pay the same as the rest, based on what you earn here.

I'm not sure how practical that idea is, at the end if the day, we are governed by consent.

I don't mind so much that the rich avoid tax but I do mind that it's one way for those who have and another way for those who have not.

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 06 Nov 17 12.14pm

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Personally, I think that the less government has to do with everyday life the better. In terms of tax law in this country, serious reform is needed.

I would argue for a universal tax rate for everyone and EVERYONE pays it. The same for corporations, you trade here you pay the same as the rest, based on what you earn here.

I'm not sure how practical that idea is, at the end if the day, we are governed by consent.

I don't mind so much that the rich avoid tax but I do mind that it's one way for those who have and another way for those who have not.

Hear, hear - seconded.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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npn Flag Crowborough 06 Nov 17 12.54pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Personally, I think that the less government has to do with everyday life the better. In terms of tax law in this country, serious reform is needed.

I would argue for a universal tax rate for everyone and EVERYONE pays it. The same for corporations, you trade here you pay the same as the rest, based on what you earn here.

I'm not sure how practical that idea is, at the end if the day, we are governed by consent.

I don't mind so much that the rich avoid tax but I do mind that it's one way for those who have and another way for those who have not.

Bound to be far more complex than we see, but I see nothing wrong with that principle. My objection is that Mr. Smith and his local coffee shop (making enough to keep heads above water) are likely to be far more viciously taxed than Costa Coffee (making millions), because they can't employ the same loopholes, which is just wrong.

 

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Mr Palaceman Flag 06 Nov 17 1.53pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by npn

Bound to be far more complex than we see, but I see nothing wrong with that principle. My objection is that Mr. Smith and his local coffee shop (making enough to keep heads above water) are likely to be far more viciously taxed than Costa Coffee (making millions), because they can't employ the same loopholes, which is just wrong.

That's it for me too, if anything in the country needs to be fair it's the way we are all taxed.

While I believe in social justice. I don't believe in taxing the rich in a disproportionate manner to the rest. People should be able to reap the benefits of their own hard work.

I know many people who could be much more productive but are not because once they earn over a certain amount the government comes along a takes half their money. No wonder so many do all they can to avoid paying anything at all.

I think on this issue, I'm fairly right wing, small government, low taxation. However on other issues I believe in a strong welfare for those that really need it and if we're going to be taxed it should be to help those who can't always help themselves, among other things.

My whole political view is coloured by the fact that I hate unfairness, no matter what political colour it comes in and successive governments have presided over unfair tax practises. It needs to be sorted.

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Nov 17 2.01pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

That's it for me too, if anything in the country needs to be fair it's the way we are all taxed.

While I believe in social justice. I don't believe in taxing the rich in a disproportionate manner to the rest. People should be able to reap the benefits of their own hard work.

I know many people who could be much more productive but are not because once they earn over a certain amount the government comes along a takes half their money. No wonder so many do all they can to avoid paying anything at all.

I think on this issue, I'm fairly right wing, small government, low taxation. However on other issues I believe in a strong welfare for those that really need it and if we're going to be taxed it should be to help those who can't always help themselves, among other things.

My whole political view is coloured by the fact that I hate unfairness, no matter what political colour it comes in and successive governments have presided over unfair tax practises. It needs to be sorted.

A fair few though would have had a disproportionate advantage in life from birth so commensurate with that they should be paying more. Plus, someone on £150k a year is not going to have to downgrade and miss much lifestyle wise if they are paying 40% rather than say 30%.

The tax system should really strongly benefit the less well off and not endow the already wealthy with more dosh as your proposal would do.

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 06 Nov 17 2.14pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

A fair few though would have had a disproportionate advantage in life from birth so commensurate with that they should be paying more. Plus, someone on £150k a year is not going to have to downgrade and miss much lifestyle wise if they are paying 40% rather than say 30%.

The tax system should really strongly benefit the less well off and not endow the already wealthy with more dosh as your proposal would do.

Problem is it doesn't. Collect more tax and governments just p*** is up the wall - it's like giving whiskey to an alcoholic.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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