Dunkirk

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Dunkirk

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steeleye20 Croydon 31 Jul 17 4.41pm
Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills. In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas. And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses. Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting.
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steeleye20

Croydon 31 Jul 17 4.41pm

Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills.

In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas.

And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses.

Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting.

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Part Time James 31 Jul 17 4.44pm
One thing that confused me the first time it happened (doesn't take much) is that they flit backwards and forwards in a timeline so you'll suddenly see a scene from a different perspective quite some time after you saw it from the original perspective. It doesn't take a lot of brains to work out but if you go in forearmed with that info then you won't need to waste any time working that out!
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Part Time James

31 Jul 17 4.44pm

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One thing that confused me the first time it happened (doesn't take much) is that they flit backwards and forwards in a timeline so you'll suddenly see a scene from a different perspective quite some time after you saw it from the original perspective. It doesn't take a lot of brains to work out but if you go in forearmed with that info then you won't need to waste any time working that out!

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baldeagle73 Leamington spa 31 Jul 17 5.14pm
It was lucky hitler left the order 3 days to attack the bef or the world would have been a different place today walking down the holmesdale road to see the palace aces!
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baldeagle73

Leamington spa 31 Jul 17 5.14pm

It was lucky hitler left the order 3 days to attack the bef or the world would have been a different place today

walking down the holmesdale road to see the palace aces!

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YT Oxford 31 Jul 17 5.37pm
Originally posted by Part Time James One thing that confused me the first time it happened (doesn't take much) is that they flit backwards and forwards in a timeline so you'll suddenly see a scene from a different perspective quite some time after you saw it from the original perspective. It doesn't take a lot of brains to work out but if you go in forearmed with that info then you won't need to waste any time working that out! Er....that's the bit I didn't really want to give away in my first post. If it's any consolation PTJ, Mrs YT came out of the cinema completely oblivious to the fact that she'd seen the same events a number of times over. I did kinda wonder which direction she'd been looking for an hour and three quarters. She's actually very intelligent (she married me, for example) but she does sometimes have problems with 'non-linear' stuff. Like, she would really enjoy Doctor Who if it wasn't for all those confusing time-travelling scenes!! Edited by YT (31 Jul 2017 5.38pm) Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 31 Jul 17 5.37pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Er....that's the bit I didn't really want to give away in my first post.

If it's any consolation PTJ, Mrs YT came out of the cinema completely oblivious to the fact that she'd seen the same events a number of times over. I did kinda wonder which direction she'd been looking for an hour and three quarters. She's actually very intelligent (she married me, for example) but she does sometimes have problems with 'non-linear' stuff. Like, she would really enjoy Doctor Who if it wasn't for all those confusing time-travelling scenes!!

Edited by YT (31 Jul 2017 5.38pm)

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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palace chick South Croydon 31 Jul 17 5.44pm
Something that interested me during the film was the rearguard action allowing our soldiers to be evacuated. This could also make a great film in remembering those heroes including the French forces. Have a read [Link]
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palace chick

South Croydon 31 Jul 17 5.44pm

Something that interested me during the film was the rearguard action allowing our soldiers to be evacuated. This could also make a great film in remembering those heroes including the French forces. Have a read [Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 31 Jul 17 5.45pm
Originally posted by alaneagle1 Yes went Saturday night enjoyed it,very noisy. Only criticism was that not enough time spent on the small boats. Although the historical role of the 'small boats' is somewhat overplayed, most of the evacuated troops were rescued by the navy. However at the time it was over emphasised as it presented a country coming together to overcome, rather than the set back of a retreat. That said the contribution of the small boat flotilla was incredible in its own right. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 31 Jul 17 5.45pm

Originally posted by alaneagle1

Yes went Saturday night enjoyed it,very noisy.
Only criticism was that not enough time spent on the small boats.

Although the historical role of the 'small boats' is somewhat overplayed, most of the evacuated troops were rescued by the navy. However at the time it was over emphasised as it presented a country coming together to overcome, rather than the set back of a retreat. That said the contribution of the small boat flotilla was incredible in its own right.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 31 Jul 17 5.49pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills. In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas. And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses. Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting. The range of fighter aircraft was limited at the time, with the operational range of most being about the French coastal area, from bases in the South of England. Add to that that the Blitzkrieg had resulted in the loss of a lot of fighter aircraft in France - the capacity of the Airforce to protect the Dunkirk beaches were limited due to numbers and being close to the maximum operational range of the British Aircraft that were available. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 31 Jul 17 5.49pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills.

In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas.

And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses.

Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting.

The range of fighter aircraft was limited at the time, with the operational range of most being about the French coastal area, from bases in the South of England. Add to that that the Blitzkrieg had resulted in the loss of a lot of fighter aircraft in France - the capacity of the Airforce to protect the Dunkirk beaches were limited due to numbers and being close to the maximum operational range of the British Aircraft that were available.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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steeleye20 Croydon 31 Jul 17 5.49pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Although the historical role of the 'small boats' is somewhat overplayed, most of the evacuated troops were rescued by the navy. However at the time it was over emphasised as it presented a country coming together to overcome, rather than the set back of a retreat. That said the contribution of the small boat flotilla was incredible in its own right. Isn't the purpose of the small boats to get people off the beach and into waiting naval vessels that could not get closer?
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steeleye20

Croydon 31 Jul 17 5.49pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Isn't the purpose of the small boats to get people off the beach and into waiting naval vessels that could not get closer?

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YT Oxford 31 Jul 17 5.51pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills. In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas. And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses. Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting. The RAF fighter squadrons were shattered by the retreat from France. As portrayed in the movie, a 1940 fighter had precious little flying time (and therefore minimal fighting time) over the beaches before it would have to turn for home. It simply wasn't feasible to fly across then fly around waiting for a Junkers to appear, Perhaps less well portrayed is the pitiful amount of ammunition a fighter plane had. I haven't double-checked before posting but I seem to recall reading that a Spitfire in the Battle of Britain would only be able to fire at the enemy for about 30 seconds. Fighter planes were therefore OK as short-range interceptors (finest hour and all that) but not very useful in longer-range 'search and destroy' operations. Edited to acknowledge that JamieM got this point in first! Edited by YT (31 Jul 2017 5.53pm) Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 31 Jul 17 5.51pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills.

In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas.

And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses.

Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting.

The RAF fighter squadrons were shattered by the retreat from France.
As portrayed in the movie, a 1940 fighter had precious little flying time (and therefore minimal fighting time) over the beaches before it would have to turn for home. It simply wasn't feasible to fly across then fly around waiting for a Junkers to appear,
Perhaps less well portrayed is the pitiful amount of ammunition a fighter plane had. I haven't double-checked before posting but I seem to recall reading that a Spitfire in the Battle of Britain would only be able to fire at the enemy for about 30 seconds. Fighter planes were therefore OK as short-range interceptors (finest hour and all that) but not very useful in longer-range 'search and destroy' operations.

Edited to acknowledge that JamieM got this point in first!

Edited by YT (31 Jul 2017 5.53pm)

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Ray in Houston Houston 31 Jul 17 6.04pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The range of fighter aircraft was limited at the time, with the operational range of most being about the French coastal area, from bases in the South of England. Add to that that the Blitzkrieg had resulted in the loss of a lot of fighter aircraft in France - the capacity of the Airforce to protect the Dunkirk beaches were limited due to numbers and being close to the maximum operational range of the British Aircraft that were available. If the Battle of Britain was their finest hour, Dunkirk was seen as a failure by the RAF (that usually gets glossed over in the telling of the Dunkirk story). However, for reasons you cite, they were doing their best with what they had. A bit of movie trivia: Nolan used real Spits and "Yellow-Nosed b****s" making the movie. No CGI involved; he had the real aircraft flying around and chased them with a camera plane. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just waing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 31 Jul 17 6.04pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

If the Battle of Britain was their finest hour, Dunkirk was seen as a failure by the RAF (that usually gets glossed over in the telling of the Dunkirk story). However, for reasons you cite, they were doing their best with what they had.

A bit of movie trivia: Nolan used real Spits and "Yellow-Nosed b******s" making the movie. No CGI involved; he had the real aircraft flying around and chased them with a camera plane.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 31 Jul 17 6.04pm
Originally posted by chris123 My great uncle Reg from Potter Heigham in Norfolk took his boat over and did three trips I think - years later the boat was used as a fishing deck on Hickling Broad. My dad and went fishing with Reg in the early 70s and used his old hulk as our base - it was in poor condition but the stove in the galley still worked. But we did not know the history of the boat until years later when one of the lads from the village gave an eulogy at Reg's funeral - we had no idea what Reg had done 40 years later and he had never once mentioned the history of his old boat - I think the lad said that he was a school boy at the time and only went along as there needed to be a crew - just unbelievable. Yep, a hero from a generation chock full of them. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

31 Jul 17 6.04pm

Originally posted by chris123

My great uncle Reg from Potter Heigham in Norfolk took his boat over and did three trips I think - years later the boat was used as a fishing deck on Hickling Broad. My dad and went fishing with Reg in the early 70s and used his old hulk as our base - it was in poor condition but the stove in the galley still worked. But we did not know the history of the boat until years later when one of the lads from the village gave an eulogy at Reg's funeral - we had no idea what Reg had done 40 years later and he had never once mentioned the history of his old boat - I think the lad said that he was a school boy at the time and only went along as there needed to be a crew - just unbelievable.

Yep, a hero from a generation chock full of them.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Houston 31 Jul 17 6.08pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills. In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas. And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses. Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting. Stukas were very effective in Holland / Belgium / France etc. as they had little airborne opposition. Once they came up against Hurricanes and Spitfires, however, they were sitting ducks. You're right that, shortly after the start of the Battle of Britain, Stukas were taken out of the theatre because their losses were horrendous. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 31 Jul 17 6.08pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Sounds like a blockbuster movie have often seen the 1958 version starring John Mills.

In all the years of WW2 history and new understanding I have only recently begin to wonder that surely the RAF should be protecting the soldiers on the beaches from the stukas.

And where is the rest of the luftwaffe? Stukas were pretty useless and discontinued after heavy losses.

Still lots we don't really know about WW2 that's why its still so interesting.

Stukas were very effective in Holland / Belgium / France etc. as they had little airborne opposition. Once they came up against Hurricanes and Spitfires, however, they were sitting ducks. You're right that, shortly after the start of the Battle of Britain, Stukas were taken out of the theatre because their losses were horrendous.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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