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Mr Palaceman 11 Jul 17 11.52am | |
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I wouldn't describe this story as a circus. Another post said the parents are selfish. Their is nothing selfish about trying to save you child. There's no blame to be attributed. My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie and his family.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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Midlands Eagle 11 Jul 17 12.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Mr Palaceman
Surely that depends on why the parents are so insistent on keeping the child alive. Is it for their benefit or his? The lad is severely brain damaged, cannot move arms or legs, is deaf and blind and cannot exist without a ventilator. Even the Americans who are offering him this experimental drug treatment agree that it can't reverse his brain damage. His quality of life is absolutely zero and unlikely to improve so surely it's in the child's best interests to let him die with dignity, especially as the doctors don't even know if he can feel pain
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Mr Palaceman 11 Jul 17 12.23pm | |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
This is the thing and it's a very difficult area to discuss. But it's so they don't live with the what if. What about the child. He is being kept alive by a machine and has absolutely no quality of life and never will have. The treatment may help some of the symptoms but it will not cure him or make him get better in that sense. His mother keeps talking about him being able to ride a bike. I can understand she had that dream for her child when she gave birth but eventually reality and rational thinking needs to be paramount over your emotions. Anyone can be kept going by a machine doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I can't be alone in thinking the time they have left with him could be spent actually being at his side instead of doing the rounds of t.v. shows and shouting out in court rooms. This is the point, you can't know that. I would be shouting outside the courts if a doctor had used the court to deny my child a right to further treatment. When there are those out they saying that they can help. What are we actually talking about here? Allowing parents to take their child to another hospital, where the doctors have a more positive outlook. Sorry to say it but your a long time dead, so a few more months of treatment, even if it is a slim chance, is a chance worth taking. If the treatment does not work, then the parents can say, we tried our very best. I bring up again the case of Ashya King. They took the parents to court and they were jailed in Spain. Imagine if they had forced through the extradition and brought the child home, so they could stop his treatment. When Ashya started to repond to his treatment, what did they say? Well done, that is great news? No, they made a statement still trying to justify their stance. They said, it wouldn't last and there's still a chance of a relapse Think if those parents had not been so strong and fought for their child.. How many other parents have been told there is no hope. If nothing else there is always hope and while there is still some hope the parents should have the right to try and if some are offended by the fact that they are on t.v. in their efforts to give a chance to Charlie, so be it.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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bubble wrap Carparks in South East London 11 Jul 17 12.28pm | |
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Very tragic for the parents but am sick of hearing about this. Mums that know feck all about the medical aspect of this protesting outside Great Ormond Street is just wrong.
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Mr Palaceman 11 Jul 17 12.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Surely that depends on why the parents are so insistent on keeping the child alive. Is it for their benefit or his? The lad is severely brain damaged, cannot move arms or legs, is deaf and blind and cannot exist without a ventilator. Even the Americans who are offering him this experimental drug treatment agree that it can't reverse his brain damage. His quality of life is absolutely zero and unlikely to improve so surely it's in the child's best interests to let him die with dignity, especially as the doctors don't even know if he can feel pain You say that like it's a crime. How about for the benefit of the child and the parents. There are unfortunatly many children alive who have an exremely challenging life. They still have worth.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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Lyons550 Shirley 11 Jul 17 12.37pm | |
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Originally posted by Harpo
My next door neighbour has a girl of a similar age. Admirably, (and I'm not sure how I would cope under those circumstances) the parents sacrifice everything for their little mite. So I do have sympathy for the Gard's. I cannot claim to understand what they are going through, but I couldn't criticise them for a single moment. At least your neighbours child has a working brain and has a 'quality' of life...if Charlie Gard had that I'd think differently...but experts far far more experienced in this field suggest that its not the case.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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Michaelawt85 Bexley 11 Jul 17 12.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Mr Palaceman
This is the point, you can't know that. I would be shouting outside the courts if a doctor had used the court to deny my child a right to further treatment. When there are those out they saying that they can help. What are we actually talking about here? Allowing parents to take their child to another hospital, where the doctors have a more positive outlook. Sorry to say it but your a long time dead, so a few more months of treatment, even if it is a slim chance, is a chance worth taking. If the treatment does not work, then the parents can say, we tried our very best. I bring up again the case of Ashya King. They took the parents to court and they were jailed in Spain. Imagine if they had forced through the extradition and brought the child home, so they could stop his treatment. When Ashya started to repond to his treatment, what did they say? Well done, that is great news? No, they made a statement still trying to justify their stance. They said, it wouldn't last and there's still a chance of a relapse Think if those parents had not been so strong and fought for their child.. How many other parents have been told there is no hope. If nothing else there is always hope and while there is still some hope the parents should have the right to try and if some are offended by the fact that they are on t.v. in their efforts to give a chance to Charlie, so be it. Ashya king wasn't being kept alive by a ventilator with severe irreversible brain damage that for me is the key difference.
When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC |
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Lyons550 Shirley 11 Jul 17 12.43pm | |
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Originally posted by Mr Palaceman
Wasn't 1.3 million raised on their behalf for the treatment? Even if that wasn't the case, what difference would that make. There are many sick children that will need support for the rest of their lives. Do you think that they should not get that support?
As I say...in my eyes its selfish to have the poor child suffer. I appreciate it's certainly one of those morale scenarios that see's those commenting on it in one of two camps....which is why I guess it's best for the Courts to decide based on the evidence and come to a pragmatic decision.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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Mr Palaceman 11 Jul 17 12.52pm | |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
Ashya king wasn't being kept alive by a ventilator with severe irreversible brain damage that for me is the key difference. That's a very good point and I understand that. My point is more that they don't always get it right. Most of the time I'm sure they do but they didn't give Ashya a chance. To the point that they actually tried to stop his treatment. It's like we're right and you can't even try, because we're right. They may be right in this case, we can't know. The problem I have is that there is a slim option for another way at another hospital but the parents are being denied the right to try.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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Mr Palaceman 11 Jul 17 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
As I say...in my eyes its selfish to have the poor child suffer. I appreciate it's certainly one of those morale scenarios that see's those commenting on it in one of two camps....which is why I guess it's best for the Courts to decide based on the evidence and come to a pragmatic decision. I can understand that it's not always for the best and that may be so in this case. I just think while there is a chance of some extra treatment, then they should not be denied the chance. There are many cases where the doctors have been wrong.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 11 Jul 17 1.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Surely that depends on why the parents are so insistent on keeping the child alive. Is it for their benefit or his? The lad is severely brain damaged, cannot move arms or legs, is deaf and blind and cannot exist without a ventilator. Even the Americans who are offering him this experimental drug treatment agree that it can't reverse his brain damage. His quality of life is absolutely zero and unlikely to improve so surely it's in the child's best interests to let him die with dignity, especially as the doctors don't even know if he can feel pain I agree. My wife is a Doctor at GOSH and she tells me that she and the rest of the staff are finding this very upsetting. They are getting death threats on social media. GOSH is limited in what it can do in terms of making public statements as it has a legal responsibility to act in a certain way (purely in the interests of the child). They also care for hundreds of sick children every day and hundreds die every year in the hospital as it's a national centre for rare and complex conditions for children. They can only give Charlie Gard the same level of care and treatment they give all their children. I think the media reaction to this has been over the top and has lead to undue pressure on the hospital and its staff who do an excellent job. The experimental treatment has a very small chance of even limited success and would do very little to provide any really quality adjusted life years for this child. The Americans are using it as a political tool to demonstrate why state provision of health care is a bad thing.
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Midlands Eagle 11 Jul 17 1.14pm | |
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Charlie cannot communicate in any way and the doctors think that there is a good chance that his illness and treatments are causing him pain but he can't express it. Even the US doctor who is happy to try out his experimental drug on him thinks that there isn't much chance as Charlie is far worse than he originally thought
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